Melicha Outline
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Chicken Mechaber: No chicken has less than 60 against the heart; mutar even if heart davuk to chicken Rama: If part of chicken need 60 against entire chicken (Ch’N’N) Mechaber: lungs don’t need to be opened; larger cavitites should be opened Chaticha Na’aseh Nevaila Mechaber: do not say ch’n’n by shaar issurim; need 60 against issur, not entire piece Rama: does say ch’n’ by shaar issurim and entire piece is the issur (even by issurai d’rabanan)
Rama: Original piece remains assur, even if 60 against Mechaber: does not hold by Ch’n’n by shaar issurim or by Issur Davuk, -but machmir by Efshar L’sochato Rama: machmir by Efshar L’sochato, Issur Davuk and Ch’N’N by Sha’ar Issurim -R’ Akiva Eiger: Halacha only applies if heart not salted -heart salted even without opening, then blood in heart’s cavity is not issur davuk -a whole pot can mitztaref to mevatel the heart
Yalta to Rav Nachman: Whatever Torah forbade, Torah also permitted. -Blood is assur, but liver is mutar (Rashi: liver is solidified blood, has the taste of blood)
Kovaid Osseres V’aino N’esseres Rabeinu Tam: Liver’s blood completely mutar; salting extracts all the blood -Is there a gezeira forbidding the cooking of unsalted liver or not? Rashi: must do melicha (since dam sheparush from liver); Does melicha take out all blood Chalita/Boiling Only way to cook liver is to boil; don’t boil, blood comes out through cooking and assur m’doraisa Shaluk -something cooked for a long time If liver cooked too long and finished giving off blood and would start to absorb blood and be Assur Symponos -Blood in liver=Mutar, but blood in symponos is assur. -To Roast symponos needs to be slit opened, so blood won’t collect; can cut before or after b’dieved -Tosefos: don’t need to be cut sh’si v’airev if roasting and eating; but if cooking it, need to cut -Rambam: To roast symponos don’t need to open; for melicha it would not help. -For chalita, they should be opened Halacha: -Rambam: if liver cooked by itself=Assur if tzli or chalita not done -Tur: holds like Rashi; but do not know difference between shaluk and bishul (Bais Yosef) -Mechaber – L’chatchila holds like Rashi that liver should be koshered by tzli and the symponons should be opened sh’si v’airev Rama: 2 cases where sh’si v’airev is not required 1) If many holes were made; 2) If the gall bladder was removed with some of the liver -Rashal: Making holes or removing the gall bladder isn’t enough still need sh’si v’airev -Taz: Sh’si V’airev sufficient for chicken’s liver -Mishb’tzos Zahav: minhag by chicken’s liver enough to remove gall blader -Shach: b’dieved if want to cook after roasting one can make holes before roasting -l’chathila, do Sh’si V’airev before roasting; but can also cut out gall bladder -Chavas Da’as: liver of a b’haima must be cut sh’si v’airev if wish to cook it (chicken ok) B’dieved-Liver Cooked without Salting Mechaber: 1) mutar since gives off blood, but doesn’t absorb; 2) liver itself assur (Rambam) Rama: even if salted and cooked=assur, since don’t know difference between shaluk & bishul
M’ikar haDin: hold like Rabbainu Tam that dom kovaid is mutar mid’oraosa -blood is assur m’drabbanan; even if liver was salted, do not permit liver to be cooked Kaf HaChaim: liver cut and salted before cooking=mutar b’dieved Askenzaim: even hefsed m’rubeh=assur; Shach: if rav permits after cut, salted and cooked=mutar
Mechaber: B’dieved boiled and cooked w/ other meat= mutar; -Rama: Boiled then cooked=assur; 2 reasons: 1) lots blood=assur b’dieved-Kula=meat chalita & cook=mutar; Chumra: no roast liver after chalita 2) chalita doesn’t change status-kula=boil liver b’dieved roast; Chumra: meat boil then cook=assur
Pri Chadash: Mechaber: roasting liver need to cut sh’si OR airev; cook liver after roasting need both Mishb’tzos Zahav: cook liver after roasing, must cut sh’si v’airev;want to roast the liver, no cutting
Liver Roasted w/ Meat in Oven with Top Opening -Mechaber: Roast Liver under meat; B’dieved Mutar if liver roasted over meat -Roasting on skewer: Assur to roast liver together with meat -Rama: Salted Liver Mutar to Roast over meat; like roasting meat over meat Salting Liver -Mechaber: Do not salt liver over meat; can salt liver under meat -Rama: Custom is not to salt liver at all; If liver fixed on a skewer or placed on grill, lightly salt -Mecahber: if liver salted by itself; or over piece of meat=Mutar -some say: if around liver is assur k’dai klipah if davuk to chicken (general chumra) -custom to wash liver after roasting because blood davuk; if didn’t wash still Mutar -Rama: Remove klipah around liver (general custsom) -Mechaber: roast chicken w/ liver everything Mutar; if cooked with live, need 60 against liver -Rama: Chicken doesn’t have 60 against liver; if liver whole will cause chicken to be Ch’N’N -Need 60 from rest of pot -Liver not attached to Chicken: Everything in pot can mitztaref to mvatel liver; liver assur
-Considered as if Chicken cooked Davuk; need 60 in chicken against issur, don’t include stuffing -eggs harden and prevent blood from being dispersed
-Mechaber: same as chicken roasted with liver; Meat doesn’t prevent blood from spreading evenly Roasing Liver Above Meat -Maramir: Mutar Roast Liver and utter under meat; mutar b’dieved over meat -Rashi: Mutar roast liver under meat if skewer is vertical (don’t say Kbolo Kach Polto) -B’dieved can say Mishrak Sharik to matir Meat on bottom if roasted with liver
Taz: Can be roasted side by side or on top, but not below meat; blood from meat goes into liver -Shach: Can roast salted liver under meat; even though liver doesn’t have own blood, won’t absorb
-Shach: Meat not yet salted; If meat salted=Assur; -Rashba: Can’t salt salt even w/ salted meat; too much blood in liver
-Shach: Cook Meat after Roasting w/out removing klipah=muar even w/out 60, don’t remove klipah -Sifsai Da’as: klipah mutar; so don’t say in all cases klipah became assur cooked only klipah assur
-Taz: Toras Chatas: liver Mutar: 1) liver gives off blood, won’t absorb; 2) chumra meat assur to 60 -Mishb’tzos Zahav: Why liver not assur since blood moves from place to place? 2 answers: -1) Liver’s blood assur mid’rabbannan; 2) liver all blood, no place to go to Egg Stuffing-Liver detached from chicken pressed against walls of eggs -Rashal: davuk since Rotav can’t reach; eggs absorb so assur; eggs hard won’t absorb at all -Rashal: liver detached from chicken, stuffing assur; even 60 in chicken; liver davuk stuffing -Rama: stuffing does mitztaref to chicken as 60 against liver if liver not attached to chicken
Spleen Mechaber: even though bloody appearance (from color of fat) still same laws as meat -don’t need cut open, no somponos; chailev and krum need to be removed
-Mutar to salt spleen, kidneys and testicles w/ meat; as long as chailev and krum removed -can’t be koshered by salting -Bais Rosef (Rokeach): kidneys can’t be koshered by salting -Issur V’heter: same applies to baitzai zachar -Bais Yosef: can be salted; Darchei Moshe: b’dieved if salted and cooked=mutar Bani Mayiim (Innards) -Mechaber: Cook w/out Roasting=Mutar, if don’t become red (little blood after fat removed) -Rama: Mutar if salted in Kli w/out holes; l’chatchila salt in kli w/ holes and do hadacha rishona -some say keres & stomach’s chambers have blood; assur b’dieved salted in kli w/out holes -Mechaber: Fat around innards have din of meat; don’t salt intestines on inside; salt fat on outside -Rama: Intestines cooked after salted on inside treif w/ unsalted fat; not cooked, salt on outside Eggs Found in Chicken -Need to salt if found during yoke stage of development; salt eggs w/ meat - white stage complet, shell hard=salt eggs, but not with meat; b’dieved salted w/ meat=Mutar
-Rama: L’chatchila don’t salt with meat; b’dieved Mutar to salt with meat Fat of Entrails on Intestines -Some osser to cook even if opened and salted, because marbled with veins; remove veins=mutar What is counted as Innards? -Rashi: includes the קיבה וכרס Ran: agrees to Rashi; bnai mayiim little blood; nothing comes out during cooking -Mordechai & Ran: hold the כרס is not included -Taz & Shach: Kurkaban counted as Innards, but has din of meat
-Shach & Taz: hold bnai mayiim in and of themselves do not need salting -impossible to completely remove the shuman; shuman requires salting -Levush (Mishb’tzos Zahav): bnai mayiim require salting; some blood will come out during salting -even though 60 against blood, to cook without salting would m’vatel issur l’chatchila
-Taz & Shach: mutar salt shuman on intensine’s outside (not on inside) l’chathila, not much blood -Taz can salt on the outside if already salted on inside
Toras Chatas: if 60 against the shuman, shuman Mutar if cooked bnai mayiim w/out salting Shach: Shmuan Mutar B’dieved: 1) Shuman dissolves instantly into the pot and spreads equally throughout the pot 2) Shuman’s blood not visiable to the eye; don’t worry about issur davuk (only chumra) -Hold like Mechaber that food in pot will mevatel the taste of blood Eggs -Taz, Shach and Rashal: argue on Rama; eggs assur if salted with meat -Eggs don’t give off tzir and thus can absorb; shells are porous (more than kli cheres)
1) Blood from the meat slides off; Mishrak sharik 2) Bnai mayiim give off tzir, so won’t absorb
-Mechaber: Don’t need salt Meat if Roasted; blood drops on roasting meat, assur k’dai n’tila -Meat can be salted without washing if roasting; some say only if roasting immediately -if meat resting with salt on it, salt absorb blood and be assur, do hadacha before roasting -Rama: Kashering by Tzli requires Hadacha Rishona; Meat should be lightly salted -custom: On skewer, lightly salt and wash; roast immediately before blood fills salt -if Roasing without wash and meat not salted or salted without washing=Mutar -if didn’t sit for shiur melicha w/out washing; sat for shiur melicha before roasting assur -Rama: No difference if roasting fowl that has a cavity; as long as not stuffed with eggs or meat -if stuffed with eggs or meat, din of being cooked, fowl should be salted before roasting -Rama: Roasting meat w/out salting: don’t turn spud (let fire draw blood); B’dieved mutar -halacha same whether eaten roasted or cooked afterwards -Meat considered roasted when fit to eat -Tzli needs hadacha after roasting (some blood left in); b’dieved mutar -Meat salted before roasting and roasted without hadacah achronoa=mutar (blood on salt drawn into fire)
-Meat can be eaten raw (schected on Shabbos) until the blood moves - Tosefos, Rosh, Ran: roasted meat does not need salting (blood doesn’t move) (Mechaber) -Not completely roasted Mutar; even though blood moves, not assur until comes out of meat -Rashi: should be salted slightly first -Shach: according to Mechaber if meat is roasted don’t need hadacha rishona K’dai Klipa / K’dai Natlia -Drop of blood falls on to meat -Mechaber: While roasting drop assures k’dai n’tila -Rama: melicha and more so tzli assurs up to 60 Even 60 melicha/tzli, where drop fell assur k’dai kelipa or n’tila; 2 reasons (Mishb’tzos Zahav):
Hadacha Rishona – Hadacha Achrona Mechaber: tzli don’t need to do hadacha rishona; sat for a while in salt, need wash before roasting Mishb’tzos Zahav: do hadacha rishona if immediately placing on grill (salt cause absorb dom b’ain) Rama: argues on 2 points: 1) tzli needs hadacha rishona; 2) l’chathila needs light salting (per Rashi) -b’dieved Rama agrees with Mechaber that don’t need to do hadacha rishona Rama: If sat for more than shiur melicah without hadacha rishona without being roasted=assur -Taz: meat salted without hadacha rishona assur immediately even for tzli (Rashal & Rama) -hefsed m’rubeh: can even be roasted or even resalted for cooking -Shach: b’dieved meat can be roasted if salt did not sit for shiur meclicha; 2 reasons: 1) Surface blood is not true dom b’ain 2) Since did not sit for shiur melicha, the blood was not driven into the meat with force -Minchas Yaakov: agrees mutar since lightly salted and roasted before shiur melicha -not enough of a reason to permit resalting for cooking -Custom: hadacha rishona before tzli, lightly salt on grill; hadacha achrona 3x, even if don’t salt -if no Hadacha Rishona or Hadacha Achrona=Mutar
-Mechaber: assur eat chicken roasted whole if jugular veins not cut; roast chicken piece by piece -assur eat chicken uncooked not cut up and salted -if remove veins: eat unsalted and uncooked or roasted whole -Machmir: don’t eat chicken roasted whole unless cut jugular veins and 1/2 esophagus & windpipe Knife Used to Cut while Roasting -Don’t cut unsalted meat unless roasted enough to be edible (knife will absorb blood) Shpud Used to Roasted Unsalted Meat=Assur -Some Say: Assur leave meat on shpud after roasting (meat will absorb blood from shpud) -Minhag: Meat Mutar in above cases -Rama: L’chatchila don’t, but Meat mutar B’dieved Rotary Grill-Rama: W/ Unsalted meat, don’t continuously turn Shpud -to avoid the meat remaining in the meat rather than being drawn into the fire; B’deived is mutar -Sifsai Da’as: Makes distinction between turning once in a while and continuously
-Yad Ephraim: heat of a fire (fire extinguished) can draw out the blood -Igros Moshe: permits meat/liver to be koshered on an electric grill; even if heat coming from above
-meat ground w/ hadacha rishona, kasher by tzli (b’dieved meat mutar w/out firsr or last washing) -no distinction about size of the meat -due to Mishraek sharik & Mishav Sha’ive, blood won’t move to other pieceswhile roasting Knife and Shpud -Mechaber: l’chatchila cut the meat with a knife even while being roasted and shpud is mutar -Rama: piece isn’t roasted to where all blood extracted, then don’t cut w/ knife, shpud assur -if cut, knife if mutar; shpud needs libun (heated till red hot); no libun, meat mutar b’dieved Rashal: b’dieved knife mutar; l’chatchila shpud needs libun and the knife needs hagalah Taz: b’dieved the shpud is assur -Mishb’tzos Zahav: Reason why shpud is assur l’chatchila: fixed in mixed, absorbs blood; no tzir -Sifsai Da’as: Assur L’chatchila since fire can’t reach it Halacah L’Maaseh: 1. Grill that meat or liver cooked on mutar l’chatchila, (mishrak sharik & fire has direct contact) 2. Mini grill that clamps onto meat or liver=assur l’chatchila(lodged into the meat/liver like shpud)
-Rama: Must be fire roasted half-way, then gravy permitted by itself -Halacha like Rava: who holds that Mutar even if: -1) bread turns red, 2) see redness on both sides brea, 3) liquid coming out of meat was thick. -Rashba: According to Gemara if partially cooked (RamaL ½) and has these three then Assur
-Can’t place kli under roasting meat to collect fate until redness fades; Mar Zutra: smoke appears -Rav Ashi: Place salt in kli, lets fat go to the top -Tur: not experts in how much salt to use (Rashi); roast half-way before putting kli Cooked Half Way If meat half cooked, sure all the blood has been extracted -Before that point, meat assur l’chathila (Shach)
Fowl or Kid stuffed with Unsalted Meat-Kasher by Tzli; even if opening turned up -even if Chicke salted stuffed w/ unsalted meat cac roast (will spit out whatever absorb) -Rama: Can roast chicken even if inside salted and outside unsalted (fire will draw out blood)
-If salted outside & inside separately=mutar -If fowl or kid stuffed then salted, salt doesn’t extract from inside -Rama: L’chatchile don’t stuff chicken/kid unless Salted both inside and Outside Stuffing Itself-Rama: Above only applies by vegetables and meat -boiled eggs assur b’deived (like unsalted chicken cooked in a pot), if chicken & stuffing not salted Roasting with stuffing -Rif: stuffing Mutar even if opening turned up; only by roasting due to כבולו כך פולטו -Rosh: melicha permitted if both outside piece and stuffing are salted -Tosefos: l’chatchila stuffing is permitted because fire extract blood better than salt -Rashi: needs lightly salted to permit by roasting -Mechaber: follows Rif, Rosh and Tosefos: outside salted and inside is unsalted Mutar to roasted Rama: l’chatchila Assur to roast stuffed meat unless both stuffing and meat salted (Rashi) -Rama & Mechaber: Assur to Kasher meat and stuffing by Melicha if only outside and not inside Nimlach Hachitzon Velo Hameluiah-Outside salted, but stuffing unsalted -Mechaber: Mutar (baluya and plaita happen at the same time); didn’t say how long salted; learn: 1) If outside piece salted for 24 hours, still say כבולו כך פולטו -Chidush: usually only if blood left in (Rashal); at least some tzir left in (Rama) 2) If outside salted less than 18 minutes still say כבולו כך פולטו; even thought not on fire
-Rama: blood drawn to the fire, and inside does not absorb any blood; even if inside washed off Rashal:inside salted for shiur and outside not, then inside will absorb blood (not in contact w/ fire) Sifsai Da’as’ five cases of stuffing meat with meat
Salted After Stuffed-salt will not extract blood from inside Shach: we don’t look at inside and outside as one thick piece; outside like meat salted on one side -in a hefsed merubah, outside mutar -Taz: not like one side salted; hefsed merubah assur (chicken’s outides’s inside’s blood blocked) Stuffing w/ Boiled Eggs and Meat-Shach: like stuffing w/ eggs; Rashal: like stuffing w/ meat Roasting Salted Meat w/ Unsalted Meat -Mechaber: Mutar roaste salted meat w/ unsalted meat (like roasting stuffed meat w/ outside salted) -Rama: l’chathila assur, mutar b’deived
-Rama: Mutar spread Fat or Tzir (won’t stop blood from giving off) -Tur: Mutar coat meat during tzli w/ coarse flour; machmir: don’t know what is coarse (Mechaber)
-Pri Chadash only dough assur; Darchai Tshuva: also the meat is assur (Mechaber) -salted with coat of flour on, like salting in kli she’aino menukav
-Kula: Meat and vegetables can mvatel issur; Unsalted meat-Mechaber:Mutar; Rama:Assur -Mishb’tzos Zahav: assur even in hefsed Merubah |