Melicha Outline
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Rely on non-Jew to wash off the meat before cooking Smak 1) מסיח לפי תומו speaking out of innocence 2) יוצא ונכנס A Jew walking in & out; helps due to fear and fastidious about cleanliness Rivah don’t believe at all since can bring in a קפילה (professional non-Jewish cook) Smag – relies on יוצא ונכנס but not מסיח לפי תומו
Bach and Drisha: don’t believe if non-Jew knows minhag Yisrael Taz and Shach: disagree; still believe מסיח לפי תומו
Safek Hadacha Achrona Shach: Mechaber (Smak) fear of being caught and Jew going in and out Rama one proof is enough Hechser Kalim Mechaber says non-Jew not believed mas’la’t; -chazaka d’issura can’t be broken by mas’la’t -(an issur d’rabbanan without chazaka could be) Taz says a mas’la’t is stonger than a chazaka in case of issur d’rabanan Shach says not stronger unless additional factor (like קפדי אמקיותא) Meliga-Unsalted chicken put into hot water, don’t know if kli shani or kli rishon Mechaber – doesn’t rely on mas’la’t Rama -Pri Megadim: also a case of chazaka of issur; no other factors no mas’lat -Minchas Ya’akov: in this case mas’la’t works (not a case of chazaka issur Did I Salt the Chicken? Taz: rov (most do salt first) overrides the chazakah of blood being present Mishb’tvos Zahav: only permits in hefsed mrubah
-even Shach permits since only a small amount of work; rov that did usual routine
Meat Cooked in its Own Blood
Mechaber: holds like the Rosh Safsai Da’as: if meat placed on kli sheni, can still be salted Rama: holds like Yesh Omrim to assur the meat except in a hefsed m’rubeh
Blood and salt on the meat is not an issur davuk; what about blood in the meat? 2 ways become an issur davuk - ממהר לבלוע the first place the issur would spread is to what is attached שמא היה פעם אחת חוץ לרוטב- Perhaps piece with issur attached would go above the rotav and then rest of pot could not be mitztaref Taz : 2 reasons 1. Chance blood moved from place to place and now wouldn’t come out 2. Blood “like” an issur davuk; perhaps meat was lifted out of the rotav Mitzb’tzvos Zahav: by an issur d’rabbanan don’t worry about the second reason Shach: only brings first reason; ch’n’n not applicable since the meat did not start out as issur Is the Meat Itself Included?-Can one count the meat against its own blood? Ravad (above) says yes Taz: Ran & Rashba: can count Rambam: since blood is issur d’oraisa, do not include in count Tur & Rosh: blood spreads evenly, meat retains original issur, then do not include -Pri Megadim: only by Kchal lenient Nekudas Hakesef: can’t be counted, since moves before cooking, so assur m’doraisa Pri Chadash: can include (Rashba) Mishb’tzvos Zahav: cannot include (need 60 without piece of meat to be m’vatel) Rama: meat is assur even though 60 against, except in hefsed m’rubeh Hollow Chickens Taz: assur even if 60 against -blood will go out of one side of the chicken to other side prior to being batel Shach: argues on Taz; as soon as comes out, batel in the water Salted on One Side Mishb’tzos Zahav: Mutar if salted on one side and cooked and 60 against - Since Rashba permits meat salted on one side and Rosh permits if 60 against
-Meat hardens and blood does not flow easily -Rama: 3 day old meat treated like meat that was not salted at all -R’ Akiva Eiger: assur even if hefsed m’rubeh since dam she’parush, so issur blood cooked Meat Salted Without a Hadacha Rishona-cooked with 60 against=Assur even in hefsed mrubeh -Can’t use two kula for a hefsed m’rubah; 1.blood stayed in didn’t move, 2.1st wash to soften meat
Mechaber: Meat left for three days without salting, can’t salt (blood dried out) -Must roast; can only cook b’dieved after it was roasted Mechaber: If immersed in water once in the three days can be left three days more minus ½ hour -Rama: Meat salted and not sure if salting was within three days=mutar -No direct source for this din Tur: meat sits out for 3 days מעת לעת without salting, then hardens; salt will not draw out Rosh: Tzli is stronger than melicha that it will draw out blood from meat -Bishul is stronger than Tzli מליכה אוסרת כדי קליפה צלי אוסרת כדי נטילה בישול אוסרת כדי שישם Three Cases
Rashal (Taz): all that was coming out came out in first salting and 2nd did nothing Nekudas Hakesef: 2nd time gives off a small amount of blood and problem Shach: machmir against Taz in this case
Taz: Since not giving off blood can absorb from others and won’t carry out Nedudas Hakesef: little bit is enough to say כבולו כך פולטו -Shach: maikil against the Taz Mechaber (Mishb’tzos Zahav): would matir roasting 3-day old meat -since no tzir and it would take out the blood absorbed from other meats Rama: Disagrees with this din
Taz: Worried that little blood comes out of 3-day old meat and assurs other meat R’ Akiva Eiger: assurs other meat even in a kli with holes Mishb’tzos Zahav: assurs only in vessel with no holes
Salted then Roasted Taz: can now be cooked Minchas Yaakov: can’t be cooked afterwards Pri Megadim: in hefsed m’rubeh can salt, roast half way and then cook Soaking in Water during Three Days Mechaber: enough to soak Mishb’tzos Zahav: soak for a minimum ½ an hour; needs more than simple washing Issur v’Heiter: b’dieved pouring water is enough Taz: Mechaber requires ½ hour in 2nd set of 3 days, in order to soften the meat Mishb’tzos Zahav: b’dieved less than ½ hour before 3rd day Shach: lav davka a ½ hour -Rama (Pri Megadim): should not soak meat l’chatchila to leave for 3 more days
Mechaber: 3 day old meat, not salted, mixed with other pieces= batel b’rov (even if r’u’ya l’chabed) Rama: Even if cooked after three days and not salted
-Even though meat is ראויה להתכבד that which is assur, the blood, is not; can have Bitul Cooked Meat That Got Mixed Up Rama: meat that was cooked without being salted is botal b’rov Shach: only true min b’mino, otherwise 60 is required Nekudas Hakesef: issur d’rabbanan, even min b’aino mino is batul b’rov in yavash b’yavas Unsalted Meat that Got Mixed Up -Taz: then Bitul b’rov Nekudas Hakesef: since could salt all the pieces, then a DSL”M and no Bitul
Taz: Meat that hasn’t been finished salting Shach: Dom B’ain -also maybe not Dom B’ain or dom ha’avarim (like Taz) Rashal: Meat is assur even if 60 Taz: Meat can be salted if 60 Shach: Since water is 60 against it, not worried about Dom B’ain Yalkut Yosef: Dom Kavush is Assur Mid’rabbanan Halacha L’ma’aseh Mechaber: meat left in water, less than 60, for 24 hours can be koshered by Tzli Rama: meat is assur and Tzli can not help Rama: If 60 against, matir even by melicha - Shach: only by Tzli can matir (follow if no Hefsed M’rubah)
Kli that has holes Mechaber: if has holes, or inclined=salting can be done Rama: must be careful that holes are clear
Mechaber: Assur to use for hot food Even with cold food assur to use a kli without holes Rama: If dry, food needs k’dia klipah; If wet, food need 60 against klipah of dish -mutar to use again to salt meat after putting holes in it; or if meat was salted and washed
-Taz: first opinion kli is cold after salt is removed; 2nd holds kli is hot until cooked -R’ Akiva Eiger: both opinions kli is considered cold; -question is whether vessel is assur for cold food without washing (or wiping) Shach: explains Rama -Plate hot and food is dry, take off a klipa; if not completely dry then take off a k’dai ntila Kli Cheres Shach (Rama): Kli Cheres can not be used without washing; other vessels can Others hold: can’t be used even after washing since can’t be koshered (might use for hot)
Taz: if meat left for 24 hours=assur; pickling transfers blios from the vessel to the food Why not lifgam? -Using a lot of salt makes charif, and a davar charif sweetens the taste for the blios -even after 24 hours and allows them to assur the food Drisha: less 24 hours-food salting in kli should be assur; tzir pickles equal time as hot on fire Taz & Shach: Tzir only has an effect on the food; takes 24 hours to remove blios from a kli
Rosh: vessel without holes; vessel with holes is mutar (blood slides offמישרק שריק ) Ran: a vessel with holes- doesn’t hold by blood sliding off מישרק שריק Rabbinu Pertz: a vessel with holes-kli cheres blood absorbed in walls kdai klipa -other vessels=blood slides off and is not absorbed Rama: l’chathila careful w/ both kind of vessels; b’deived food cooked in both kind=Mutar Rashal: l’chathila other vessels Mutar by cooking; kli cheres assur even b’dieved Shach: l’chathila don’t use other vessels for cooking; kli cheres assur b’dieved
Meat salted in a kli without holes for time it takes to boil water Mechaber: Everything in tzli Assur (even by roasting) Rama: Everything (in tzir and out) is Assur -even if not shiur melicha, but enough time to see tzir -only piece sitting in tzir is assur, not ones on top Salted and Washed Meat in Water Mechaber: Can put in any water; some say put in boiling water Rama: Holds like the first opinion Why is the meat assur when salted in a vessel without holes? Rabbainu Peretz: Even part above tzir is assur because of דם שפירש ממקום למקום Rabbainu Tam: Blood goes out and back into the meat by salty tzir. -Machlokes if entire piece or only that in the tzir is Assur R’ Yehuda M’Bartzalona: meat is not assur until the end of shiur melicha Rosh: part in the Tzir is assur, and only if sat long enough to pickle; -if less time, then assur k’dai kelipa Mehaber: holds like the Rosh; meat assur kdai kelipa above the tzir, even if fatty Rama: holds like Rabbainu Peretz
Bais Yosef: Rambam holds that salt does not take out all the blood, thus need Chalita Aruch Hashulchan: Rambam if salt on meat more than 36 minutes doesn’t require chalita -custom to leave on for one hour Mechaber
-but if follow minhag of one hour, safe to assume all blood came out
Meat salted for shiur and placed w/out hadacha achrona in vessel w/out holes -vessel filled up with tzir Is blood coming out after shiur melicha? Rashi: only mohhel and not dom Would salt and tzir cause the blood to absorb back into the meat? Tosefos: mohel does not cause dom on the meat to be absorbed and assur the meat Bach: mohel like water and negates the strength of the salt Taz: salt losses its strength Tosefos: dom dries up in the salt; Rosh: its strength has dissipated Mechaber brings A) the above case and B) where meat placed in mohel of other meat Yaish Omrim both cases be careful l’chathila, b’dieved mutur (mohel has din of blood) Rama: brings Tosefos & Ra’aim who disagree with Rashi; (mohel not like blood) -Since tzir comes out after shiur melicha is still hot, assur d’dai klipa immediately Rashal (Taz): if meat is in tzir for zman kavisha (time to pickle in salty liquid), all in tzir = assur If 60 against the tzir, without counting the meat, what about what is in the Tzir? Rashal if 60 times the meat against the tzir (with meat in tzir) = whole piece Mutar R’ Akiva Eiger: even if 60, still assur kdai klipa When salt is drawing out blood -we can be maikil in a hefsed m’rubeh after shiur melicha (it loses its heat) -but when drawing out blood, stays hot all the time
Shach: melicha assurs kli a k’dai kelipa Sifsai Da’as: melicah assurs kli cheres entirely -Minchas Ya’acov: even a kli cheres only assur k’dai kelipa אין מליחה לכלים If milk dish within last 24 hours, then meat is assur; -salt does not remove blood from the kli; but can remove other food blios
Mechaber: maikel b’dieved since after shiur melicha the salt is not hot Rama: maikel in a hefsed m’rubeh and seudas mitzvah -Also can cut meat during salting (svora of Nekudas Hakesef) Cutting Meat before Shiur Melicha Rama: meat Mutar to resalt -R’ Akiva Eiger: Why don’t we say Dom B’ain comes out and ossers meat? -Chavas Da’as: Dom that comes out is Dom Plaita (won’t absorb by tzir) Tzli not required L’chatchila Tzir is not Mishrak Sharik Only Dam
Why mutar to salt two pieces together? Rabbainu Tam: blood slides off מישרק שריק and won’t be absorbed Yesh Mefarshim in Tosefos: tzir being extracted from meat -any absorbed blood will be piggybacked on Tzir and extracted with it R”Y M’Orleans: as long as the veins open, they give off absorbed blood from another piece Tosefos: When giving off tzir, meat will not absorb
Rabosav of Rashba: even if no blood or tzir left in the meat, salting will remove absorbed blood Halacha Mechaber: holds like Tosefos; B’dieved: Rabosav of Rashba Rama: concerned about Rabainu Tam l’chathila Taz: Rama=Yesh Mefarshim; must wait another shiur melicha for the bottom piece Shach: Rama=Tosefos; bottom piece does not have to wait another shiur melicha
Taz: Rama says Mutar, since tzir is coming out the meat, it will not absorb the blood -Mishb’tzos Zahav: main reason כבולעו כך פולטו -Chavas Da’as: nature of salt to take out and absorb simultaneously If salt put on after 24 hours without hadacha achrona Taz: assur the meat since no tzir coming out Shach: mutur since only dom b’ain can be absorbed Minchas Yaakov: only a little blood on surface and slides off Sifsai Da’as: maikil (Shach)
Fish salted and Chicken unsalted-both mutar Fish on top, both Salted-Rama: Fish is mutar (blood doesn’t spread upwards) Fowl quickly finishes giving off all its tzir; becomes eligible to absorb the blood of the chicken In a vessel with holes, the fish is assur Rashi: only the fish; force of tzir from chicken prevents blood from fish coming into chicken Rashbam (Rosh): chicken also assur; tzir goes into fish, mixes and become treif, goes into chicken -No ch’n’n by Tzir; so why assur? -Even if chicken absorbs treif tzir, only actual issur (blood) assures; won’t absorb blood -How does chicken blood come out of the fish? Mechaber: chicken is mutar and fish is assur kdai kelipa Rama: whole fish is assur unless 60 times the size of the chicken Fish on Top Nature of blood not to spread upwards -Shach: blood does spread upwards k’dai klipa -Minchas Yaakov: by meat in rotav; cut kdai klipa on part above the rotav -not able to cut exactly at the tzir line; does not apply to salting fish with meat -Rama: machlokes Shach and Minchas Yaakov if fish is assur k’dai klipah |