Episode #8 Radiate with Robert Wolf
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| Episode #8 — Radiate with Robert Wolf
Overview Betty Liu: Hi everyone, and welcome to Radiate, the show where we interview some of the world's most successful people to find out how they work their way to the top. This week, Robert Wolf. He went from blocking tackles on the football field to blocking attacks at the President. Meet the man who people say could get to just about anybody in the world with his Rolodex. Wolf spent decades in high finance, rising to the position of President of UBS Investment Bank and the CEO of its Americas Group, where he struck up a most unusual friendship with none other than the President of the United States. So since then, he's raised millions for Obama. He's been called the rare, Wall Street Democrat, and he also left the world of banking to start his own firm, 32 Advisors, which, of all things, has started a drone business. In this conversation, Wolf takes us through his career, how he came to be golf buddies with the President, and also what advice he would give the next generation of leaders. Here we go.
Robert Wolf: Probably people wouldn't say, "Hey, Robert's a good networker." I think it's probably not one of the first things that comes to mind. Most people would say, "Robert's the type of guy you either like him, or you don't like him ... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...but at least he's a straight shooter." I think that ... Betty Liu: So people would say you're a straight shooter? Robert Wolf: Yeah, people have said that "Robert would be a fastball pitcher if he played Major League Baseball and probably could not throw a curve." Betty Liu: By the way, I had no idea what that meant, but that's good. (laughs) Robert Wolf: It just means straight as an arrow. I think when you are running a firm ... I mean, when I was president of UBS, we were a top 5, large financial institution. We had clients all over the world, and you're in meetings all day, and I think when I was running UBS, I didn't think about, "Oh, this is part of my network." Actually, it never came to mind that way. I thought about ... Betty Liu: Is that a bad thing to say that though? Robert Wolf: No, I think that when you're doing it, you kinda think like, "How do I get business with this person?" And "How can our firm help that individual to better his business, or his service, or his product line?" And then I think, you just build a relationship with these people. So I never thought while I was in business that I was building this grand network. When you leave that type of business that has incredible amount of leverage in the system and resources like a UBS that's in 35 or 50 plus countries with thousands of people all over the world, when you leave that resource environment then you're really on your own, and it's incredibly humbling, but it's also liberating, and it allows you to reach out to these people in a different way and how you can work together and be more collaborative and partner. And people are always looking to figure out ways to do things together whether it's, like I said, whether it's philanthropy or other venues. Betty Liu: You may not call it networking, other people do. Robert Wolf: Yeah. Betty Liu: And they look at someone like you and they say, “Robert, what is your best piece of advice on how I can learn to network? When I walk into a room and I wanna seal a deal, how do I network with this person so that I can form this relationship and do that?” Robert Wolf: I think a few things. One, be prepared. I read Wall Street Journal, New York Times, of course, look at Bloomberg, but every day I feel like I need to make sure I'm enhancing my education, and so I'm a avid reader with respect to business, so when I go into a meeting I'm prepared; I know who I'm meeting. I try to find out as much as I can about what they like, what they don't like, how their company has done. Secondly, I try to be a good listener, and, by the way, that's not easy for someone like me, who probably waffles that line of arrogance and confidence... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...probably way too often, but you wanna be a good listener. And I would say, number three, come with some ideas that actually makes them think, "Hey, you know, he's thinking for me, or she's thinking for me." And as far as the network, exchange cards and once in a while, reach out to the person even if it's not business-driven, "Hey I know you're a fan of so-and-so," or, "Hey, I remember you told me your son or daughter did something." Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: And I would always say to people get to know who your client is, more than just from a business perspective, and spend the time doing it. And then I think if you're a young person and just starting the business, your best network is your school, your training class, don't give up on that. Actually, that actually becomes your lifeline for the next decade. When I started at Salomon Brothers, okay, the people that are in my class, even if they left Salomon Brothers or if they ... I was in fixed income and they went into equities, those were the people I would reach out to ask the stupid question for, "Hey, what does CPI mean?" Or, "What did this Fed statement mean?" Or, "Tell me ... I'm in corporates, tell me a little bit about mortgages." Or, "What happened in the equity market today?" You’re most comfortable ... not reaching out to your boss ... you're most comfortable... Betty Liu: Right. Robert Wolf: …reaching out to your peer. So I would always say make sure, when you're in a training class or at school, make sure you develop real relationships where you can reach out to. Betty Liu: I think it's so important what you said about just reaching out to people, not always to talk about business, but just, "Hey, I heard your daughter is interested in ..." I don't know ... whatever ... it could be horseback riding or something, and you find an article about that. I think people forget that. Robert Wolf: My wife laughs at me because now in this new age of being able to find all this information on everyone ... I'm always putting notes in my contacts. If I'm having lunch or dinner with someone, and they tell me that their daughter is going to Penn, I like to remember those things. Betty Liu: You put that down? Robert Wolf: Yeah. Often, not all the time, but I like to remember some of those personal things 'cause I know when I'm in a meeting, if someone says, you know, "How are your boys doing at Duke?" or, "How's your wife doing at Sandy Hook Promise?" Those are ... Betty Liu: It means something. Robert Wolf: Those are important that they actually ... Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: …listened to me. Betty Liu: Right. Robert Wolf: And so, I remember in my days on Wall Street, when I started, we probably didn't listen to anyone, (laughter) and it was good to eventually learn to listen. Betty Liu: So, Robert, let's talk about your relationship with the President. How does one become friends with the President? How does that work? Robert Wolf: Well, it has been an incredible ride and with incredible honor. Whether you are a Democrat or Republican, to be friends with the President of the United States is ... Betty Liu: The most powerful man in the world. Robert Wolf: ...it's something, and I've had that good fortune. It started in 2006 ... and I'll try to make this quick ... I met him at a little get together through George Soros. Probably the only other time I saw him was at the Kerry convention in 2004 when he gave that incredible speech; 2006, there was a group of Democrats, and he was talking to them, and I didn't say a word, and, believe it or not, because I was kind of a novice in the room, and I gave him my business card, and then the next day he called, and my secretary yells, "It's, uh, Barack Obama," and I get on the phone, "Who the F is this?" Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: “Oh, it's Barack Obama." "No, really, who is this?" "No, really, it's Barack Obama." Betty Liu: Did that really happen? Robert Wolf: Yeah…I told people I had met with him, so I thought my buddies were busting on me, which would not be unusual... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...okay, on Wall Street. And then, we talked throughout the last quarter of '06 fairly often. Then… Betty Liu: What was he calling for? He just wanted to follow-up? Robert Wolf: Just to talk and get to know me, and then we met, had a dinner in January 2007, just the two of us at Olive's. And we really had a lot of things in common. He was an Ivy League guy. I'm an Ivy League guy. He's a sports guy. I'm a sports guy. He had two young kids. I had two young kids. His mother passed away of cancer. My dad was going through cancer. He was against the war. I was against the war, so you could ... It's one of those cards ... Betty Liu: Got a lot of things in common. Robert Wolf: ...that you kinda just check off. Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: And then he asked me if I would support him for the Presidency, and I was very clear that I'm on board and in doing so, I said that, "My wife and I would like to host your first New York event," which we did in March 2007 ... gives you an idea how long ago that was. And we had a lot of people who just wanted to meet this guy. He was running 10th in the polls. Hillary was at 65%, and he was at 1%, but he just finished the “Audacity of Hope” book, and he had momentum. People wanted to meet him, and it was great for my friends, my clients, my family to all get to meet him. And then for a period of time, I was a fundraiser. Then, in August 2007, when I was, at that point, President of UBS, we were gonna be one of the first firms to show a billion dollar loss, and I called him and said, “I know I've been a fundraiser for you” ...It was his birthday. He just called my wife for her birthday ... and I said, "I'm just telling you, it's gonna move from about being about the war to all about the economy because, all of a sudden I saw how much leverage was in the system. It felt like we were gonna burst this bubble. Betty Liu: So you flagged him on this? Robert Wolf: I wouldn't say I flagged him, but rumor has it ... Betty Liu: You were one of the ... Robert Wolf: ...I was one of the ones that flagged him, and then I became his economic advisor, myself and Austan Goolsbee at that point, and we started talking or emailing nonstop. And it continued throughout and during the Lehman weekend, I was one of the executives that was reaching out to him and that's written about often ... Betty Liu: Yes. Robert Wolf: ...calling, calling, then Senator Obama, who was negotiating with McCain about whether he should do the debate or not. What was funny is Phil Graham, the Vice Chairman of UBS, was working for me. He a the McCain guy, and I was a Obama guy. Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: So it was an interesting time. And then our friendship just continued to proliferate from their and, we've obviously... Betty Liu: Well, clearly the President is an extremely smart man, but were you behind the scenes during much of this time? Robert Wolf: Oh, absolutely, we were doing... Betty Liu: He would seek your advice on the economy and you would be telling him this will work, that won't work? Robert Wolf: Absolutely. We were talking ... remember this was in the depths of the beginning of the recession. Betty Liu: Right. Robert Wolf: We were talking all the time about the financial markets, about GSE reform, about reg reform, and we did debate prep in my office, and so we were ... Betty Liu: At UBS? Robert Wolf: At UBS. So we were, talking nonstop or emailing nonstop, or whether it was with his advisors, Plouffe and Axelrod... Betty Liu: Right. Robert Wolf: ...but it was, for a year, just continuous. And then once he became the President of the United States, I was honored with being, really, the Wall Street representative for the Volcker Committee, which was the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board, and so that was a great two-year stint. And then after that, I became an appointee of the Council of Jobs and Competitiveness. Betty Liu: Did you want a Cabinet position? Robert Wolf: No, I had a great job at UBS, and ... Betty Liu: You didn't wanna be Treasury Secretary? Robert Wolf: I think that coming from a guy (laughs)... Betty Liu: Come on… Robert Wolf: Listen, first of all, people don't turn down Treasury Secretary but having a Wall Street guy going through that confirmation ... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: …would not have been ... Betty Liu: At that time. Robert Wolf: ...at that time, something that was even thinkable, and so it, to be blunt, just didn't even, it wasn't even a discussion. And then I had the honor of my third appointment under the President, which is, I'm now on his Export Council. So I've remained a relationship as an outside advisor with respect to the economy and business. And I have very strong relationships with their cabinet and administration. And so, yeah, the relationship, I think has kinda two areas, it has the professional side which is the business and economic side and then the personal side, which over, this 8-year period, or actually 10 years now, almost, we've developed a great relationship. Our families know each other. We're the... Betty Liu: Play golf. Robert Wolf: We're in the golf. We're in the Vineyard together. We've celebrated a lot of great events, whether it's birthdays or inaugurations together, and he's been quite an influence on my oldest son as well, who is a public policy major at Duke. So, yeah, I think that over years you build that rapport... Betty Liu: It's been rewarding for both. Robert Wolf: ...and it's been rewarding for both and I think, also, for me as I try to transform from a Wall Street guy to more of a thought leader, I'm involved with discussions that I never thought I would really be involved in. Betty Liu: When we come back, Wolf reveals more about his relationship with Obama and gives his view on what it really takes to succeed in America. Betty Liu: So how did you like being called or considered a fat cat banker? Robert Wolf: Well, it's funny. Wall Street Journal, I think used the headline when they did the article on me, "Fat Cat With the President's Ear." Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: And I used to say, Jesus, can you not call me fat, I mean how about, how... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...you know, how about hefty, or stocky, or a guy with a football figure... Betty Liu: Robust, right. Robert Wolf: ...robust. I mean, listen, this was the time where the rhetoric of the election between Obama and Romney were getting heated up and there were terms of Wall Street being used from the Democratic party, "fat cat," and… Betty Liu: But is it inaccurate though? Robert Wolf: Well, I... Betty Liu: Aren't there fat cat bankers on Wall Street? Robert Wolf: I actually think that Wall Street, obviously from a income perspective, is incredibly successful; no one can take that away, but we also do some great things, okay, and I think that during that time period, because Wall Street got back in business quickly when the rest of the country was not recovering, we stood out, and we stood out because we lead often with this bravado, and we're in New York City, and we're in San Francisco, and we're in the urban areas where there's movie, dinners, theaters, shows and it's... Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: …always Wall Street guys and we seldom don't exude humility. It's kinda ... We live in a business where, literally, we're trying to make sure they know we are the best to do business with. And then, all of a sudden, we're in a situation where we have to tame it down, and that's not something we've done that well. And so, listen, I always thought the rhetoric was politics, and when someone said, "Oh, he's calling you a fat cat," I joked, "I get called worse things when I walk in my home." Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: Okay. So, I mean, really in the scheme of things that this is just political rhetoric; that's all it was. I do think that I am one of the Wall Street guys that agreed that we needed regulation, and I was supportive of the direction Obama was going. But I actually liked it a lot better when it was his original 85-page Treasury blueprint than the tens of thousands of pages it is today, and I think he would say the same. But when I was sitting in that Lehman weekend, rightly or wrongly, we did not have the tools, in that weekend, that we needed, to be a vibrant, financial institution... Betty Liu: Right. Robert Wolf: …or sector going forward and the Fed being the systemic regulator, so they could see both the bank holding companies and the non-bank holding companies like a Lehman and like an AIG was important. I was very supportive of making sure we had derivative transparency and clearing. And I also was supportive of the Resolution Authority and Living Wills to make sure we know how to wind down a global interconnnected firm. So, I probably did stand out in many ways based on my views that were supportive of where the President was going... Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: ...and that's okay. I would probably take that trade again. Like I say to my friends, "You had one vote, and he won twice." Betty Liu: (laughs) So how is your relationship gonna change with the President when he leaves office? Robert Wolf: I'm fortunate to say that one of my closest friends happened to have been the President of the United States, and he will see my kids grow up, and I'll see his kids continue to grow up, and we'll play our golf and I'm sure we'll be involved in some of the philanthropy that he's engaged in. My wife and I are already supporting his foundation. And so we look forward to seeing the actions he takes, and I'm sure we'll be involved in some way. Betty Liu: As a partner maybe? Robert Wolf: I don't think that 32 Advisors ... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: …is the place for him. I should be so flattered. But, my feeling is he's gonna do incredible things, both him and Michelle, for not just the United States, but really being kind of a global leader like he is today and he's gonna end his presidency at a young age, so there will be decades of him really kinda leading a lot of the vision of this country and the international perspective. Betty Liu: So, Robert, you're so optimistic. I mean, you can tell the energy just from talking to you here, you love being with people. You love your business. You're passionate. But do you wake up on a daily basis, and you say to yourself, "What the heck am I doing?" Robert Wolf: No. I will tell you absolutely... Betty Liu: Never? Robert Wolf: Never. I just don't. It's not ... Listen, I'm not one of these people who are so exuberant and always peppy and high fiving; that's just not me. I'm excited to have this conversation with you, and the truth is, when I'm talking about myself, I don't mind doing it ... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...shame on me. But I think that ... First of all, I don't need an alarm clock in the morning. Okay. I wake up every morning about 5:15, and it's a built-in alarm clock. The worst nights I sleep is when I have to actually put an alarm clock on for some reason because I'm looking at it every five minutes. So I like getting up in the morning. I have a routine, between working out and reading the papers I like to read and listening to some of the TV I like to listen to, and I like being up early and getting my day started, and I love that I'm taking this new challenge. I don't know if 32 Advisors will be the success story that I wanna read one day, but I know that I'm going to work really hard, hire really smart people to make it a reputable firm where people will say, "You know what? They're smart. Their ethics are beyond reproach. Those are good people." Betty Liu: So you don't have that fear of failure? Robert Wolf: Zero. I am so excited that I have the opportunity to take these challenges. II will always appreciate what Wall Street did for me. And the idea that I have been able to now try a new challenge and not ask people to fund it, but actually do it on my own ... and I'm looking forward to building this 32 Advisors platform and then the Measure platform is something I just pinch myself. It may be the most exciting thing I ever did. Betty Liu: The drone? Robert Wolf: This drone operation, it will be binary, either myself or my partners will build the nationwide platform that is the gold brand for drone operations, or we didn't execute. It's not because we're not a first mover, and we don't have the right vision. And I have not been an entrepreneurial guy, so being this entrepreneur has… Betty Liu: It's exciting. Robert Wolf: ...been very exciting for me. It's a new thing. It's a new challenge. I come home, and I'm learning every day. I always say about Wall Street, the best thing about Wall Street is a free education. Every day you walk in, there's smart people you're around. You ask questions. That's continued for me, and I'm a 53-year-old guy that's still... Betty Liu: Yeah, how old were you when you left UBS? Robert Wolf: I left UBSin 2012, so I was 50.. Betty Liu: So you were just 50? Robert Wolf: A little over 50. Betty Liu: Okay. So you feel like you've got plenty of years ahead of you? I'm not saying that you don't. Robert Wolf: No (laughter)... Betty Liu: I'm just saying… Robert Wolf: Let's hope so. Let's hope I have plenty of years. (laughter) Listen, I think… Betty Liu: I'm just saying you're a born again entrepreneur now... Robert Wolf: I am. Betty Liu: …at the age of 50. Robert Wolf: I have a lot of exciting... Betty Liu: Now 53. Robert Wolf: ...things going on. I have, obviously 32 Advisors, which we're gonna do some exciting things in the infrastructure space. We have Measure, and then I have 32 Entertainment which is really my family office where I never had the ability to make private investments before, and I don't know (laughs) if I'm picking any good ones... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: … but I'm having some fun doing it. Betty Liu: But let's face it though, Robert, you've done financially very well, so you were able to take that risk too, right? Robert Wolf: You know what? I have been incredibly fortunate to be able to start Wall Street during the Reagan era. Betty Liu: Yeah. Robert Wolf: Okay. And I tell Paul Volcker, "Thank you." When I started Wall Street after graduating in 1984, people don't remember, but 95% of Wall Street associates were grads, and the Wharton Degree allowed me to join Wall Street as a undergrad. I think our training class was 5 undergrads and 95 grads, so... Betty Liu: Wow. Robert Wolf: ... it gave me the ... I'll never forget my interview process. The guy said, "What are you looking for?" And he said, "Uh, well, I'm looking for a rocket scientist jock." I said, "Well, that's easy. I'm graduated Wharton, and I played varsity football, Division One, so I know I'm one of the two." (laughter) And so, listen, to be on Wall Street for a 30-year career is something that not that many can say that they've been able to achieve so... Betty Liu: Yeah. And, like you said, it's a free education. Robert Wolf: And the environment, Betty, worked for me. It was a Darwinian environment. When I grew up in the 80s, it was a locker room environment, yelling and screaming and high fiving and Midnight Madness, and it worked for me. And then as I grew to become more senior in the firm where it talked more about the academic and learning side, that kinda worked for me because I was always a bit of a student of it. So, I'm one of those that can burn both ends of the candle. I can have my fun, but I also wanna be a student of the business I'm in, and so I think it's why I went to Penn. I always wanted to be a student athlete. Betty Liu: So last piece of advice you would give anybody, whether they're a 25-year-old and they want to start a business, or they're 55 years old and they want to start a business? Robert Wolf: I would say, one, is find that passion and go for it. Okay. I always tell my kids, find something you love doing, and go do it. I always wanna tell people, also, take risks. Take prudent risks, but take risks. Take that leap and bet on yourself. And then the third thing, I would say, get a great education, whatever that means, both in the classroom and outside the classroom. Be a student. Be up on current events. Read the paper. Watch certain TV programs that will make you smarter, and I tell my kids all the time there is nothing better than an education. It will give you avenues that get you one step ahead of your competition, and I hate to say it's a competitive, tough world out there and education matters. So, I've been fortunate to take a few risks. Some go well. Some don't go well, but I'm gonna keep taking 'em. Betty Liu: So, Robert, you were saying earlier that you burn both ends of the candle. You’ve done so many things. When you were in school, you were a football player, but you were also at Wharton, so how do you balance all of it? Robert Wolf: I would say learn to sleep about 5 or 6 hours a night, but... Betty Liu: That's it? Robert Wolf: (laughs) No, actually, I can't say I'm the greatest sleeper. That's one thing I could improve on. A few things. I think for me, being a student athlete was critical. It was something I always wanted to be, so going to an Ivy League school and playing Division One football was something I wanted, and… Betty Liu: And you were a running back, right? Robert Wolf: I was a running back, number 32. That's why ... We don't have 32 advisors. It's always been a good luck ... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...number for me. But I always did better in school while I was incredibly busy. So, while I was playing football were my best grades because we couldn't go out other than Saturday night. And off-season, when you go out Wednesday, Thursday... Betty Liu: (laughs) Robert Wolf: ...Friday, Saturday, I didn't do as well academically. Betty Liu: Funny how it focuses you, right? Robert Wolf: And I think, similar, when I started out at Wall Street, I was a 22-year-old punk, and would be able to go out all night and entertain clients and do what trainees do, and enjoy the discos and the night life of New York in the 80s, as well as be the first one in. Okay. And be the last one to leave. I always beat my boss in in the morning and left after he left in the afternoon, at night. And then, as I got older and more senior, it became all about work-life balance. And if there's something I can tell both those who are beginning their career, those who are in the middle and ending their career, find a work-life balance. Find those things you like to do outside of work and do it. For me, it was always coaching and sports. I coached all of my kids sports. There are times I left work at 4:00. I didn't feel guilty because I'd go back and finish at home what I needed to do, but I would try to never miss my sons' games. Okay…those were ... Betty Liu: What did you coach? Robert Wolf: I coached football. Betty Liu: Football. Robert Wolf: I coached basketball. Betty Liu: Okay. Robert Wolf: And I coached baseball for them. I coached all year round, and in my town, no one knew I worked on Wall Street. I had my truck, and I was Coach Wolf. But the thing for me, it gave me a good balance. It allowed me to leave work at some time during the day and do something else. So work-life balance is incredibly important, and I think everyone needs to find that. Betty Liu: Next week on Radiate, Hollywood's once golden boy is all grown up, uber producer, Ben Silverman, the man behind shows like "The Biggest Loser" and "The Office," one of my favorite shows, joins us on Radiate to discuss what it's like to hit the big time before the age of 40, only to be torn down by the media, and how he's made his comeback. Thanks for joining us. I'm Betty Liu. If you liked what you heard, please review us on iTunes. Don't forget to hit that button and subscribe to our podcasts. You can also find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, or on my website, Betty, dash, Liu, L-I-U, dot, com. See you next week on Radiate. |