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ד Hilchos Nida Rav Baruch Simon shlit


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Pleisi: Can’t be meikil,

  • Ohr Zarua: Can be meikil, only a chumra.

    And Shevet HaLevi adds that even a person who holds like both of them if she saw during the day, don’t have to add another ona (altz the Ohr Zarua) onto the regular ona of the pleisi.
    III. How does ona beinonis fit into reality of today that most women don’t see on day 30?

    A. Ohr Yitzchak 29: Veses Eina Kavua- assumes that since the metzius is not like this anymore, no reason to keep the ona beinonis at all. Similar to the ש"ך, except that acc to the ש"ך when keep veses hachodesh keep it as a veses kavua, but acc to R’ Abadie, would be keeping veses hachodesh as eina kavua.

    -This is not the normative psak.
    IV. Woman who has a long cycle (always more than 30)- does she keep ona beinonis?

    - The whole idea is that woman that doesn’t have veses kavua keeps ona beinonis in place of veses kavua. Question is, is there a concept of negative veses kavua, d’haynu, she never sees in fewer than 33 days, for example?


    A. Trumas HaDeshen 247- Discussion about whether women who have veses she’eina kavua should do bedika before every tashmish b/c could always see dam. So has shayla about a woman who never gets her period less than 14 days after going to the mikva, but after that no telling what’s going to happen. Does she need to do bedikos?

    - Thinks she doesn’t need bedika as long w/in those 14 days b/c don’t call her ein la veses.
    B. שו"ע 186:3- Woman who never sees less than 14 days after tevila, but after 14 ein la keva, up until those 14 days are up has din of veses kavua.

    1. Chavas Daas 186:3- Doesn’t like this yesod b/c says that acc to this, then woman who always sees after thirty days shouldn’t have an ona beinonis, and that even the Trumas haDeshen wouldn’t assume. No idea of negative veses kavua. Maybe something can happen this month.

    * So the question is, does this extension of the chavas daas really make sense?
    2. Sidrei Tahara 189:15-17- Case of woman who had haflaga of 30, 32, 34, has ona beinonis of 30. However, says that if she would have seen all 3 after 30 days, then wouldn’t have ona beinonis. However, could say that שו"ע didn’t necessarily mean this.
    3. Igros Moshe YD 2:72- supports the idea of the Sidrei Tahara. And is mashma that she wouldn’t have to keep veses hachodesh either (Pashtus, b/c apparently this woman is not susceptible to the moon, shipura garim, etc. Ha Raya she never sees even close to this time.

    * R’ Simon said that even though most poskim don’t assume this way, he tells ppl they can be meikil.



    שיעור #17 (Packet 11)- 11.24.08/ 26 Chesvan 5769

    Veses HaGuf

    - Physical indicators that woman is becoming a nida.
    I. Different kinds of Veses haGuf: How do they become kavua?

    A. Gm Nida 63A- any woman who has a veses (haguf) and sees dam, can assume it started now (daya shayta). And these are the vestos: hiccups, sneezing, stomach hurts, s/ kind of fever, if happens 3x, koveia a veses.


    B. 63B- Mishna ends w/ saying “v’kayotzei bahem”, gm discusses what this comes to include: Explains it’s referring to eating certain foods: Garlic, onions, pepper, etc.
    C. 11A- Woman who jumps and becomes a nida. Happens 3x gives her veses kavua when the day and the jumping go together (kfitzos and yamim). (I.e. Jumps e/ 4th Sunday causes dam).
    *Machlokes Rishonim how to understand connection btwn yamim and these occurences

    1. תוס' 63B Achla- Since eating causes the veses, weaker form of veses, not included in the mishna of veses haguf (as opposed to where the body itself is indicating that it is ready, you didn’t do anything). So why not connect the eating case with case of kaftza? B/c kfitzos is really seeing machmas ones, so that needs yamim along with it.

    *Acc to תוס', 3 levels of Vese haGuf:

    a. Body’s own indication that period is coming

    b. Artificial Cause- eating (still not as intense)

    c. Ones- Kfitza, much more intensive cause.

     Only kefitza requires combination w/ days.
    - רשב"א Vestos 14A- explains chiluk btwn causes and symptoms: When she’s

    sneezing, etc. that’s a symptom of the period, greatest raya that it’s here, no need for connection to days. However, the eating and the jumping causes the period artificically in a sense, it’s an outside cause. But agrees w/ תוס' in terms of requirement of days only for kfitza, not for eating. .

    2. ראב"ד Baalei HaNefesh: Eating and Jumping both require connection with certain days. Only michaleik btwn the cases in the mishna and those not in the mishna. If in mishna, can be it’s own veses, if not, connect with yamim.

    * Acc to ראב"ד, only two levels of Veses HaGuf:

    a. Body’s own indicator- Pihaka, Itush, etc.

    b. Artificial cause- Achila & Kfitza

     Achila and Kefitza both require connection w/ days.
    D. שו"ע 189:23-

    1. מחבר: Cannot be mitztareif different kinds of veses haguf to make it kavua, needs to be the same one 3x.

    2. רמ"א: brings machlokes ראב"ד and תוס'/רשב"א about how we treat eating. Is it like jumping or like sneezing.

    a. Badei haShulchan 256- Should be machmir like the 2nd deia, תוס', that chosheish for the veses even w/out combination w/ days.


    E. Ona Beinonis if has kavua Veses haGuf

    1. רמב"ן Hilchos Nida 5:6 – Woman who has veses kavua of veses haGuf, if has nothing to do w/ specific day/time, still needs to be chosheish for ona beinonis like s/one who has no veses kavua at all.


    II. When is she אסורה if she has a kavua veses haguf?

    A. ראב"ד Baalei HaNefesh- If she usually sees the whole reiya w/in the veses, then only אסורה while the symptom is around, but once its gone, needs to do a bedika and if its good, they’re mutar. If she usually bleeds even past the veses, though, then she’s אסורה the rest of the ona, like a regular veses. Either way, she’s never אסורה until she has the occurrence (sneezing, headache, etc) even if it’s usually associated w/ a day as well.


    B. שו"ע 189:24 –it all depends on when she sees during the veses. If only sees at beginning, then chosheish for beginning, but if not chosheish until the end, only has to be chosheshes for the end. But that’s only if she only sees dam during the veses, but if she usually sees more than that, then אסורה starting from the beginning of the veses until the end of the ona.

    1. Chavas Daas 189:31- But why should this woman who sees more than just during the veses have to also have to be chosheish from the beginning of the veses? Explains that b/c she sees the rest of the day as well, it becomes like a veses hayom b/c viewed as the day she sneezes, so now chosheish for the whole day. But quotes רשב"א in Thb, that only says she’s אסורה the rest of the day, mashma that it only starts with the time she usually sees, which in this case is the end of the veses.


    II. Veses She’eina Kavua when it comes to veses haGuf

    A. שו"ע 189:21- had hiccups on ר"ח and saw dam, next time she has these hiccups אסורה to be mishameish until she does a bedika.

    1. ט"ז 189:38- But isn’t the din by veses she’eina kavua that if veses came and went that she’s muteres w/out a bedika? Should do it, but if didn’t not אסורה until she does?! Explains that veses haguf she’eina kavua is more chamur than regular veses she’eina kavua b/c this is a symptom of the period itself as opposed to just being a day that she saw last month. Therefore, more chamur here.

    2. Nekudos HaKesef 9- Doesn’t like the kasha at all. Thinks there is no chiluk btwn different vestos she’einam kavuos. Ela, just telling you that by vestos haguf, right after the pihuk אסורה unless she does bedika right now, but if time would go by and still no dam then muteres even w/out a bedika (Same as din by reg veses eina kavua that once the day passes muteres w/out bedika).

    [*Badei HaShulchan 228- thinks should be machmir like the ט"ז. However, doesn’t think should take chumra to consider it like mamash a veses kavua that would be אסורה if didn’t do bedika w/out 7 nekiyim, ela if limaaseh didn’t do the bedika muteres w/out the 7 nekiyim, but lichatchila should do bedika during the veses and bidieved once the veses passes should still do a bedika if didn’t do one before.]
    III. How does this manifest itself limaaseh?

    A. Igros Moshe YD 1:84- Woman who gets pain in her chest about a week before she sees dam, starts not so bad, then gets severe, then not so severe and then she sees. Says that for sure doesn’t have to be chosheshes until it starts to get weak again. But says this is only once it becomes kavua. Before it becomes kavua has to continue to be chosheshes for other vestos she’einam kavuos, like haflaga. Also adds that if she s/times sees at beginning of the veses and s/times at the end (meaning, s/times when the pain is bad, s/times when not so bad) then doesn’t become kavua until sees 3x of one or the other consistently. Not a combo. [agav, sounds like R’ Moshe is not saying like שו"ע or the Chavas Daas, ela assuming that if she usually sees at the end always only chosheish for the end, even if she continues to see the rest of the day]


    B. Igros Moshe YD 3:51- Woman who stains before regular period. If staining w/out hargasha and then gets flow w/ hargasha, then go acc to when she gets the flow. However, if when she sees dam it’s usually w/out a hargasha (like most women) then count the veses from the staining b/c see that the staining was the beginning of the pesichas hamakor.

    *Many disagree w/ R’ Moshe and minhag of Morei Horaa is to count veses from ribui dam even w/ women who have no hargasha.


    IV. Birth Control Pills

    A. Chezkas Tahara 189:19- The specific examples given in the gm and שו"ע are not an exhaustive list. Ela coming to teach that any thing that happens to a woman that is a sign of or causes dam to come, if it becomes consistent, will be considered a veses haguf.


    B. Shevet HaLevi 189:23:5- Women who take pills that set up their cycle and Dr says that when she stops taking it she will see 3 days later, muteres for 2 days beforehand, but should be poreish m’eis l’eis before the day the Dr says she will see.

    *R’ Abadie agrees with this for woman who sees dam in morning of day 3, but if she usually sees day 3 later in the day, thinks don’t have to be poreish the night before.


    C. שו"ת Shevet HaLevi 3:124 D’h רמ"א – Wondering whether the chumra of the ט"ז would also apply to woman taking shots which cause period to come. Thinks that should treat it like regular veses haguf (pihuk) which comes as an indicator that s/thing is coming and should be machmir like the ט"ז that even if it doesn’t come, אסורה until she does a bedika.

    שיעור #18 (Packet 12)- 11.26.08/ 28 Cheshvan 5769

    Kreiva L’Arayos and Issur Negia B’ishto Nida
    I. Issur Kreiva L’Arayos- Doraysa/Dirabanan

    A. Acharei Mos 18:6- “Lo Sikrivu l’galos erva” Issur doraysa of kreiva l’arayos. But question is, what does that mean?

    1. רמ' Sefer HaMitzvos 353- Not only bia itself, but any actions of kreiva, like chibuk and neshika and things similar to them. Anything that could lead to being migale erva. (Sounds like R’ Yosef Engel’s idea of syag doraysa, like bal yeirae, issur mishras by nazir, etc).

    a. רמ' IB 21:1,2- If are boel arayos, or chibuk v’nishuk get malkus. And this is s/thing done derech chiba, derech tayva. This is issur doraysa. And adds as well issur of kalus rosh w/ all arayos, being mistakel b’arayos l’hanos, and these would be issur dirabanan, get makos mardus.



    Halacha 4- mutar for man to be mistakel at his wife when she’s nida, even though he gets hanaa b/c she is muteres to him at other times.

    Halacha 6- talks about kissing and hugging arayos that ein libo shel adam nokfo heimenu, like sister, aunt, even though no hanaa and tayva, says still אסור and maaseh tipshim, and calls it megune b’yoser.
    [R’ Simon said after שיעור that by aunt, etc. who is generation older and doesn’t understand why you wouldn’t hug her can be meikil b/c giving peck on the cheek is not derech chiba at all. Did not think such a kula applied to a/one in same generation as yourself, including a sister]
    2. Hasagos רמב"ן- Argues w/ the רמ' in the Sefer HaMitzvos. Thinks the issur of chibuk/nishuk is only issur dirabanan or issur doraysa b’inyan ½ שיעור (1/2 שיעור in eichus, not in kamus. S/ want to say chametz nuksha has the same status b/c on its way to becoming chametz, but doesn’t get there all the way).
    - Brings raya from Gm שבת 13A (also in Avos DR’Nosson): Maaseh of talmid chacham who died very young. Wife goes to different batei medrash asking why? And Eliyahu asks her what he do w/ you during 7 nekiyim? She said he would eat and drink w/ me and sleep w/ me b’kiruv basar, but just wouldn’t have tashmish. And Eliyahu says Baruch Hashem that He killed him b/c lo nasa panim l’Torah b/c Torah says “el isha b’nidas tumasa lo sikrav”.

    ר"ת- explains that this was only problem midirabanan b/c the women used to go to mikva after nida doraysa was over and then would go again at end of 7 nekiyim.
    The question, though, is what does it mean “lo nasa panim l’Torah”?

    *רמב"ן- This is only issur dirabanan b/c if it was really doraysa wouldn’t say lo nasa panim l’Torah, would say he was over on divrei Torah! And find lashon of nosei panim implies doing more than is required (הקב"ה says that He will be nosei panim to us for bentching even on a kzayis, which is not required midoraysa).

    3. Megillas Esther (defense of רמ') - Says not a raya b/c could be that gm means that הקב"ה was not nosei panim to the Torah of this Talmid Chacham. הקב"ה didn’t let the Torah save this talmid.


    II. Negia by ishto nida who is sick and ramifications of this din

    A. Trumas HaDeshen 252- Wife is sick and a nida and husband wants to help her w/ certain things, is this mutar?

    Thinks its אסור to touch her at all. And even though רא"ש says its mutar if the man is sick, could be that’s only to do things that don’t involve direct touching. And even if it does mean real negia, that’s davka when the man is sick, but when the woman is sick and he’s healthy, we’re more worried (brings raya from zav/zava, only issur is from him to eat from her). And what about husband who’s a Dr and wants to take her pulse, shouldn’t do so. And this is all even though none of the touching is derech chiba.
    B. רשב"א שו"ת (Meyuchas to רמב"ן) 127- Husband is Dr and there are other Dr’s around who he can call, can he check her pulse?

    On one hand, maybe since its only dirabanan, and certain dirabanans are mutar by chole she’ein bo sakana, or no, since there’s hergel here, no room to be meikil. Says its mistaber that its אסור b/c we’re only meikil by dirabanans in situations where chazal say b’feirush that we can be meikil. And there are other Dr’s there as well, so why be meikil. And adds that even chole sheyesh bo sakana will only be meikil when have umdina that she’s really b’sakana, unless, of course, it’s clear.


    C. Beis Yosef 195:17- Quotes the Trumas HaDeshen, that when she’s sick, he can’t touch her, even shelo k’derech chiba, and quotes רמב"ן who also assurs when there were other Dr’s, but pashtus blanket issur. However, when she’s chole sheyesh bo sakana, mashma that the רמב"ן would be meikil b/c of pikuach nefesh. But says this may only be acc to the רמב"ן lishitaso who thinks the issur of kreiva is only dirabanan. But acc to the רמ' who thinks this is issur doraysa, maybe would be nichlal in avizrayhu of gilui arayos and would be yeihareig v’all yaavor.
    *There are a number of problems w/ this shtikel Torah:

    1. That teshuva was really written by the רשב"א (so can’t say its רמב"ן lishitaso).

    D. שו"ע 195:17- מחבר: אסור to feel her pulse

    רמ"א: If talking about pikuach nefesh and there’s no one else there, can be meikil.

    2. ש"ך 195:20- Quotes Beis Yosef and argues that the רמ'’s whole issur was only derech chiba and this is not derech chiba! And says we have minhag pashut that Jewish Dr’s touch women, even married women, even when there are non-Jewish Dr’s around, and pashtus this is b/c its not derech chiba. But by ein bo sakana, אה"נ husband shouldn’t do it.


    E. Toras HaShlamim 15 (Defends the Beis Yosef) - Could be that since derech chiba is issur doraysa, that since this is so close, רמ' would hold that even this would be yeihareig v’al yaavor. And says the רמב"ן has no raya from the fact that Drs always touch women who are eishes ish b/c ishto nida is more chamur than other women b/c more hergel. (But אה"נ even this is pretty strong chidush if this is what the Beis Yosef meant).
    F. Sidrei Tahara 195:17- Doesn’t like Toras HaShlamim’s chiluk btwn ishto nida and eishes ish b/c only time we’re more machmir by eishes ish is when dealing with issur made specifically mishum hergel aveira, and that’s what the רשב"א and the רמ"א were talking about. However, by the issur doraysa of kreiva, not just mishum hergel aveira, eishes ish is even worse! Im kein, the raya the ש"ך brings from maasim b’chol yom of the Drs is an excellent raya that when the negia is not derech chiba its mutar l’gamrei. However, he brings other rayas that things that are אסור midirabanan mishum avizrayhu d’arayos would have din of yehareig v’al yaavor. But thinks that limaaseh by ishto nida when she is in sakana can be meikil.
    G. Igros Moshe YD 2:14 – Shayla about going on the train/bus during rush hour, bound to end up touching women, etc.

    - Mutar b/c the negia isn’t derech tayva, so even acc to the רמ' shouldn’t be even issur dirabanan. And brings ש"ך who says this pshat in רמ'. Then explains that when ש"ך writes that to check wife’s pulse when she is nida is only mutar when there is sakana but otherwise אסור is b/c that’s midinei harchakos, not issur kreiva b/c in terms of issur kreiva mutar l’gamrei b/c not derech chiba and quotes ש"ך’s raya from Drs. And explains that if was still issur dirabanan when not derech chiba, wouldn’t matir this issur for negia by Dr in non-sakana situations. Then quotes the Toras HaShlamim and the dechiya of the Sidrei Tahara which he likes, particularly the haara that no reason to be mechaleik btwn ishto nida and other women when it comes to issur kreiva, only by harchakos. And explains that even acc to Toras HaShlamim would be mutar to go on subway b/c his chumra was only by wife/ s/one who libo gas ba, but in this case these are random womena and just brushing agains them.


    - And what about going on the subway w/ ishto nida?

    Says that if she can stand s/where else, better. But if you’re in the situation, lichora would be taluy on machlokes ש"ך and Beis Yosef (acc to Toras HaShlamim) b/c acc to ש"ך nothing to worry about, not derech chiba, and acc to Beis Yosef this is still ishto nida. However, says that maybe even acc to the Beis Yosef would be mutar b/c here not going to lead to anything, not mechavein to touch her at all. And says even by sitting next to eachother in situation where have no other choice, also meikil b/c not derech chiba.


    [In Even HaEzer 4:32:9- R’ Moshe writes that even though he thinks going on bus/subway is mutar l’gamrei b/c the negia is not derech chiba, thinks shaking hands in way ppl do for business is אסור. And even though he says he wrote earlier that those who do it are assuming that it’s not derech chiba either, thinks its not the same and “kasha lismoch al ze”b/c by the bus there is no chiba at all, משא"כ when shaking hands where he thinks there is what to be worried about in terms of derech chiba and tayva.]


    III. Is Nida din of arayos or not? נ"מ: Yeihareig V’al yaavor

    *On one hand, issur kareis, usually included in arayos. However, kiddushin is tofeis, and child is not a mamzer, just ben nida. So is it arayos or not?


    A. Minchas Chinuch – Thinks nida is bichlal arayos. Included in parsha of arayos in Achrei Mos. Quotes רמ' Ishus 1:5- A/time Torah assurs bia and the punishment is kareis, considered arayos. 4:12- writes that if mikadesh any of the arayos, kiddushin is not tofeis, except by nida, mashma that he thinks nida is one of the arayos. And quotes our Beis Yosef b/c even by chole sheyesh bo sakana would be אסור altz yeihareig v’al yaavor.
    B. Yerushalimi שבת Klal Gadol- Usually require only haraa to be over on the issur arayos. But don’t we have this lashon by nida to tell me it needs only haraa? Gm says would have had ה"א that nida is different b/c “ein chayavim al nida mishum tuma”. Question is, what does this mean?

    Korban Ha’Eida: 2 pshatim:

    1. Not b’chlal arayos

    2. Nida is different b/c has tuma aspect only in nida (since others not chayav mishum tuma, משא"כ by nida).
    C. R’ Yosef Engel quotes this yerushalmi and says acc to the 1st deia nida would not be included.
    D. ריטב"א Pesachim 25A- Quotes רא"ה that nida is bichlal arayos.
    E. Avnei Nezer (Hilchos Nidui V’Cherem)- Bothered that Beis Yosef even has ה"א to include Nida in yeihareig v’al yaavor. B/c learn the whole din of yeihareig v’al yaavor from hekesh btwn Naara Meurasa and Rotzeiach (not sure . . . .)

    שיעור #19 (Packet 13)- 12.01.08/

    Harchakos #1- Hoshata (Passing)

    I. 2 Explanations why ishto nida is more chamur than regular nida

    A. Gm Sanhedrin 37A- No issur yichud w/ ishto nida. Brings pasuk “suga baShoshanim” hedge of roses, that הקב"ה trusts Jewish ppl that when wife is in nida view it as if there is hedge of roses between them and won’t come to be nichshal.

    1. תוס' HaTorah- Meaning, that when woman says she has dam, he will be poreish. But isn’t yichud an issur doraysa? How can a pasuk in shir hashirim be doche an issur doraysa? Explains that issur yichud is only by arayos that always remain אסור to you, like your mother (yichud learned out from ben imecha), but nida will be mutar to you eventually, so no issur yichud (however, b4 bia rishona still אסור b/c yetzer hara is too great).

    a. R’ Schachter- So see it’s not that shir hashirim is being doche an issur, ela shir hashirim is coming to teach you what the nature of the yetzer hara is.

    [Dvar Halacha (on issur yichud)]
    Reason #1

    B. רא"ש Kitzur Hilchos Nida (explanation #1) - Made these harchakos b/c since no issur yichud by ishto nida, need to have constant reminder that she’s a nida.


    Reason #2

    C. רשב"א שו"ת Aleph 188 (explanation #2) - S/one w/ whom libo gas ba, even small things can lead to issurim chamurim. That’s why we have these dinim davka by ishto nida.


    II. Negia

    Gm שבת 13A where woman says that bimei nidusa afilu b’etzba kitana he didn’t touch her. See that even negia which isn’t derech chiba is אסור. (and see Igros Moshe and Sidrei Tahara [שיעור #18] who also assume a separate issur dirabanan of touching shelo k’derech chiba).


    III. Hoshata (Passing)

    - Not found in the gemara.

    A. Machzor Vitri (talmid of רש"י) – says that he used to see that רש"י wouldn’t even pass a key to his wife when she was a nida.

    B. תוס' Kesubos 61A- Also quotes this machzor vitri.

    C. רמב"ן Hilchos Nida 8:5- May not pass anything from his hand to hers or take from her since she is his wife need extra harchaka (like the רשב"א).

    D. רשב"א Thb 3b- (Based on gm Kesubos quoted below) When gm says that Shmuel’s wife would give him the cup w/ left hand, doesn’t mean she handed it to him that way b/c handing anything is אסור. Ela means that you present it in front of him w/ the left hand.

    *See רשב"א holds like רש"י. And acc to this, have to say that issur hoshata is midina d’gemara b/c otherwise why would he have to reread the gm if this passing idea was a later chumra.
    IV. Rishonim who don’t think there is issur hoshata

    A. Mishna Kesubos 59B- Mentions all the different things a woman does for her husband: Cooking, cleaning, baking, nursing children, making the beds, etc.

    1. Gm Kesubos 61A- All the things that a woman does for her husband a nida can do for her husband except for mezigas hakos (diluting the wine, which is romantic), making the beds, washing his hands, feet and face. Then gm gives examples of shinuim that wives of the amoraim would do by mezigas hakos.

    a. Sefer Yeraim 2 parts of mezigas hakos: the preparing of the drink and the presenting of the drink and need both to be אסור. So as long as do it b’shinui won’t lead to intimacy. However, by other passing, not mezigas hakos, no issur at all. B/c mashma in gm that hoshata is only אסור when part of the mezigas hakos b/c if the hoshata was אסור on its own, why is gm only talking about it by mezigas hakos. Adds that just make sure you don’t touch.

    b. רמ' Ishus 21:8- Have all these harchakos b/c of chashash hirhur and will come to bia. So says should do a shinui in the way she gives it to him.

    i. מ"מ 8- Mashma from רמ' that he also doesn’t hold from regular issur of passing, only by meziga. But is mode that this is only daas ktzas mefarshim.


    B. רא"ש Kesubos 5:24- Quotes same possibility, maybe only אסור by kos yayin, including diyuk from gm שבת 13A about talmid’s wife that says spefically that he didn’t touch her when he passed to her, not that he didn’t pass. But רא"ש doesn’t seem totally convinced to be meikil either.

    C. Sefer haTruma- Quotes from his rebbi that the whole issur is only by hoshatas kos, but does write at the end that s/one who is nizhar not to pass “tavo alav bracha”.


    V. Halacha Limaaseh

    A. שו"ע 195:2-

    1. מחבר: shouldn’t touch her even w/ etzba kitana, and shouldn’t pass anything from one to the other.

    2. רמ"א: Shouldn’t throw it from one to the other either, quoting שו"ת Binyamin Ze’ev.

    **And from here, R’ Abadie and other poskim want to אסור ping pong, tennis, etc. midin hoshata. And R’ Abadie thought that even if there is no issur hoshata per se, when its derech schok, worse.
    B. Sefer Toras Emes – Does not agree with this chumra of throwing b/c the whole issur of hoshata itself is only a chumra (except acc to רשב"א), and now coming to make gzeira l’gzeira. And even רש"י, was only doing so b/c he was a kadosh and chassid, but was not coming to make a hanhaga l’doros.

    *Many of the Sefardishe sfarim are more meikil b/c this din of zerika is only quoted by רמ"א.

    C. Darkei Teshuva 195:11- quotes שו"ת meishiv dvarim issur for husband to kiss baby in mother’s hands if she is nida b/c touching s/thing in her hand already is a kula and there is more hergel when kissing baby.
    VI. Are there situations where can be meikil b’shaas tzorech?

    A. Darkei Teshuva 195:13- Giving Ring during Chupas Nida: Quotes a number of eitzos:

    [1. שו"ת Shaarei Deia: Hand it to her and be careful not to touch her.

    2. שו"ת Yosef Avraham HaSefardi: Place cloth over her hand when he hands it to her, won’t come to touch her.

    3. Maharil: Don’t place it all the way on, put it there and let it fall onto her finger.]

    4 שו"ת Binyan Tzion: Can say that since the whole issur is only by ishto nida, im kein, she’s not your wife yet when you give it to her, just give it to her regular. But wants to be machmir. Maharil has this svara as well.

    [5. Masgeres HaShulchan- can throw it into her hand, will be meikil by zerika in this case.]
    B. Taharas HaBayis siman 12 (R’ Ovadia) – Why is the שו"ע so machmir, when so many rishonim write b’feirush that there is no issur at all?
    1. Gm Pesachim 108A- Only do heseiba by 2 of 4 kosos, but not sure which two, gm isn’t sure, so just do by all 4.

    i. ר"ן- why don’t we just say safeik dirabanan l’kula?

    Gives 2 answers:

    1- If not a big tircha, don’t say safeik dirabanan l’kula.

    2- Don’t say safeik dirabanan l’kula when that will be mivatel the whole mitzva.

    Says R’ Ovadia, based on 1st teretz, maybe when it is a big tircha, maybe we can rely on rishonim who say there’s no issur hoshata, but when there isn’t, should be machmir. So says that in case of tzorech, big tircha, then can be meikil. And quotes Sefer Toras Emes that it’s chumra yeseira a/way.


    C. שו"ת Tzitz Eliezer 58- Thinks can be meikil to allow the husband to help his wife bring the baby stroller down the steps, etc.
    D. Igros Moshe YD 2:75- Helping wife carry something heavy

    Has a lot of reasons why maybe shouldn’t have to be machmir b/c his only raya is from case of zav and zava carrying heavy things together, and its really midinei tuma/tahara, but, nevertheless, thinks should be machmir here as well. And when it’s not very heavy, thinks there’s even more reason to be machmir.


    VII. Passing Baby

    A. Tashbetz 230- Thinks can be meikil by passing a baby b/c of din of chai nosei es atzmo.

    B. Pischei Teshuva quotes this Tashbetz as well. R’ Simon added that this could apply even to little babies b/c there is תוס' in R’ Eliezer D’Mila who says this even by baby at a bris mila.

    C. Badei HaShulchan 195:27- If one of them is holding a baby, the other shouldn’t hold and kiss him. And some say shouldn’t even touch the baby is way that wouldn’t lead to kalus רא"ש, like dressing him or calming him. But if his hat falls off in the winter, etc. yesh l’hatir b/c stam tzorchei katan are like chole.

    D. R’ Willig- Also wants to say that tzorchei katan is like chole and therefore can pass the baby just based on that. Plus, R’ Willig was concerned b/c ppl do dumb things like placing the baby on the car or on the floor. Rather have ppl pass the baby directly than have it chas v’shalom lead to something dangerous. Also similar to what R’ Ovadia was saying that when there is a tzorech can be meikil.

    *R’ Abadie thought that for sure shouldn’t be a problem if all three are walking and child is holding the father and mothers hand.


    VIII. Embarassment

    A. Igros Moshe YD 2:77- Doesn’t think that embarrassment is a reason to be meikil by these inyanim, no matter whether the embarrassment is in front of other frum ppl who will know she is in nida or whether they are not frum.


    B. R’ Willig thought one could question the metzius of this din. But have to use chochma.

    - Quotes maaseh from R’ Amital that kollel guy in Gush did something that was very obvious they were in nida, and R’ Amital said there’s no mitzva to be mifarseim to the world that your wife is in nida.


    IX. Supplement to שיעור #13 (throwing, etc.)

    A. Makel Aruch

    1. רמ"א 195:2- reason that shouldn’t pass is b/c we’re worried shema yiga b’bsara.

    a. רא"ש Kesubos 5:24- mentions case of tana d’bei Eliyahu, and problem of passing was that might come to touch her.

    2. שטמ"ק Kesubos 61b- Passing something is not אסור shema will touch her, ela its like an extension of your hand, k’ilu you are touching her.
    3. ש"ך 195:3 even if passing s/thing that’s long, still אסור to pass. Doesn’t say which svara he’s working with.

    4. Aruch HaShulchan 195:5- It’s b/c of chashash negia, and even though passing s/thing long, still אסור, lo plug rabanan.


    B. Throwing (Ping Pong)

    1. Tifferes Yisrael (Pleisi on harchakos) 195:1- Thinks issur zerika is if mechavein to throw to her directly, but not if throw it up and she catches it on the way down b/c the whole idea of zrika is chumra b’alma b/c even hoshata is a chumra. And thinks blowing feather off wife’s clothing is mutar, and says don’t add issurim that don’t exist shema ppl will come to ignore all of them.

    2. Sidrei Tahara 195:4- Rikash is meikil in any case that isn’t done derech schok. Nevertheless, Sdt says ein lazuz from divrei רמ"א. And quotes the Tifferes Yisrael, and argues that even though he’s right meikar hadin, ein l’hakeil and says so even by blowing off the feather. V’kol hamachmir b’inyanim eile tavo alav bracha.

    3. שו"ת Be’er Moshe (Debretziner) – Can they play Ping Pong?: Argues that ping pong is like the kula of the Tifferes Yisrael b/c not throwing it to her, first of all hit it w/ the paddle, second of all, the ball hits the table before getting to her, so writes that even though he tried to convince the shoel not to play it at all, even when she’s tehora, b/c he should be learning, says can’t tell you its אסור.

    4. Mishne Halachos (R’ Menashe Klein) - Thinks its אסור, and thinks chess is אסור too.

    5. R’ Abadie thinks that ping pong is not a good idea, but was not as bothered by board games b/c not throwing things at each other, etc. Bothered by derech schok of it.

    *R’ Simon thinks that Ping Pong should be avoided if possible.

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