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ד Hilchos Nida Rav Baruch Simon shlit


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מחבר: Should make the bracha while still in her robe and then make the bracha and go in. And if she didn’t, then should make the bracha when she’s up to her neck in water. And if the water is not murky, she should make it murky by swishing her legs around and then make the bracha.

רמ"א: Yesh omrim that she shouldn’t make the bracha until after the tevila, and this is the minhag, that after the tevila while she’s still standing in the water, she should cover herself w/ a begged and is mivareches.
C. Shela – says he saw a Chassid meianshei maaseh who told his wife to be toveles once, then make the bracha, and then be toveles again, and are yotzei l’chol hadeios.
D. Dagul MeRivava – Is bothered by the Shela b/c not really being yotzei l’chol hadeios b/c she was already toveles, so is tehora already and bracha isn’t shayach to the next tevila, and can’t say that need kavana to be yotzei w/ bracha b/c brachos aren’t miakeiv. And also quotes Tosefta Mikvaos 5 that being tovel 2x is megune, and רמ' paskens this way as well. Also, we pasken that tevila doesn’t need kavana, so even if you wanted say let her make tnay that if need bracha before then I have kavana not to be yotzei that won’t work either. So thinks yatza schara b’hefseida. However, says at the end, since there are those who argue w/ the רמ' and worst case just being toveles a 2nd time for nothing, since the Shela said it, should be chosheish l’dvarav. **And the minhag is like the Shela.
E. שו"ת Meishiv Davar 37 – Wants to say that problem of dunking twice is when you come out and then go back into the mikva, but 2x while you’re in the mikva maybe isn’t megune.
IV. So how do you make this bracha? She’s not wearing clothes.

2 problems:

1- Libo roe es ha’erva. Need separation between erva and lev.

2- Can’t make bracha when erva is uncovered.


A. Drisha 200 – To get rid of problem of libo roe es haerva they hug themselves, however their erva is still exposed. So need the water to be dirty. Writes that he holds like the Orchos Chaim who thinks there is no din libo roe es haerva by women only by men b/c erva of woman is recessed and behind, so no need to wear belt or hug themselves, but still have this problem of seeing the erva.
B. ש"ך 200:1 - doesn’t think this is a problem b/c water, even clear water is good enough to cover the erva, and brings raya from gm Brachos 24a that when baal keri goes to the mikva and has to say krias shema b/c zman has come, gm says talking about dirty water in the mikva so no problem of libo roe es haerva. ש"ך asks, why didn’t the gm ask but isn’t his erva galui b/c not even e/one agrees to problem of libo roe es haerva, but e/one agrees to problem of gilui erva, so says see from gm that gm isn’t worried about gilui erva in the water.
C. ט"ז 200:3 – also agrees w/ Orchos Chaim, and in end agrees with the ש"ך (see inside).

*This is how we are noheig, like the ש"ך and Orchos Chaim.


V. Heated Mikva (Spoke about this before)

A. מחבר 201:75 – Yesh omrim that its אסור to pour hot water in mikva (gzeira shema ppl will come to be tovel in sheuvim).

1. רמ"א: Yesh meikilim, but yesh l’hachmir if no minhag to do so, but if there is minhag to do so then ein limchos b’yadam.

*Our minhag is to use hot mikvaos.


VI. Showering after mikva

A. Gm שבת 14a – person was tovel and then put rosho and rubo in mayim sheuvim have to be tovel again. Why? B/c ppl used to clean themselves off after the mikva and ppl started to think the cleaning step itself was going to the mikva. Shayla is does this only apply to teruma or even to chullin (husbands).

1. Mordechai quotes raavya that this applies even to husband, but then quotes others who say this doesn’t apply to husband.

2. Ohr Zarua also brings both opinions.


B. רמ"א 201:75 – being rocheitz afterwards there are those who אסור it, and that’s our minhag.
*Not a big deal if she’s going to go home and see her husband that night and they are together that night. But if husband is away, does she have to wait until he comes home to take a shower? Could be a number of days/wks!
C. Igros Moshe YD 2:96- Issur of taking shower after going to the mikva

Says the minhag is only for that day, but the next day she can take a bath, shower, go swimming, etc. and thinks to wait so much time before taking a shower would be a minhag taus. And says also that if she’s so istanis that she can’t wait until nightfall of the next day she can take a shower b/c it’s only a chumra of a daas yachid and the chumra was meant for most women. But in general, if no tzorech, should be mikayeim the minhag b/c most women can handle that.


D. שו"ת Shevet haLevi 125 - as long as they touch then she has already been yotzei the minhag b/c the mikva has done its job and the gzeira is not shayach anymore.
E. Chut Shani - Thinks as long as she left the mikva house then מותר for her to take a shower.

*R’ Simon thought that if don’t have to rely on this then better to be mikayeim the minhag. And limaaseh this shayla is really only shayach when husband is out of town




שיעור #41 (Packet 32) – 3.2.09

Dam Besulim
*Breaks all the rules b/c this is really just dam maka. L’halacha has almost all the chumras of dam nida.
I. Source of the Din

A. Mishna Nida 64b – Machlokes BS/BH about different women, depending on how likely they are to see dam nida, less likely to be tole l’kula on dam besulim, and assume it is not dam nida.

1. Gm: Rav: Bogeres only gets whole first night if didn’t see dam. Meaning, by first bia, will be tole on dam besulim, but once have next bia, if see dam, assume it’s dam nida. Still a kula.

2. Gm 65b – Boel beilas mitzva and then poreish. No telia at all. Assuming this dam we see now might have been dam nida. So gm says if this is true, maybe baal nefesh shouldn’t be gomer the beila (b/c maybe she’s a nida in the middle)? Gm answers no b/c then he will be nervous to ever be boel bia rishona.


II. What’s the svara?

A. שו"ת Geonim: Dam Besulim causes dam nida to come out with it. Traumatic experience which causes body to release dam nida.

B. Eshkol 47 – Dam Chimud: afraid that machmas chimud, causes dam nida to come out.

1. Gm Nida 66a – If ask woman to have nesuin, she has to wait 7 nekiyim b/c can cause dam nida:

2. Brachos Yerushalmi 19a – Impossible for dam besulim to come out w/out some dam nida.
C. רא"ש 10:1 – Don’t say these pshatim b/c then why would we be choshesh even by a girl who is not at age to see dam nida? Also, usually we are tole on dam maka. Ela, it’s too complicated, and most chamur is bogeres who has already seen, so treat e/one like her. Lo plug.

1. Sidrei Tahara 193:1 – Kasha on רא"ש: Bogeres shera’asa, has din that gets telia the first time, not אסורה right away! At least that’s not pashut pshat in gm. Those gm’s are coming to give a telia to be meikil.


D. רשב"א שו"ת 7:161 – Generally have to be meikil by makos b/c happen very often. However, this is a one time maka, so were machmir.

**Ohr Zarua – Maybe only issur tashmish. Can still sleep in same bed. Not assumed this way l’halacha.



III. How similar is this to pirsa nida b’shaas tashmish?

A. ראב"ד Baalei HaNefesh - By woman who is pirsa nida man has to try hard to lose the kishui and be poreish immediately w/ ever meis. However, when it comes to dam besulim, still has to leave with ever meis, but don’t have to try so hard to lose the kishui. Pretty similar.


B. בעה"מ – Says we don’t have this chumra at all. Ela finish the bia and then be poreish, even with ever chai. (However, even though can finish tashmish, once leave, cannot continue). This is how we pasken. Not so similar, can finish the whole bia.

IV. What if Dr removes besulim (נ"מ between different svaros)

A. Igros Moshe YD 1:87 – Dr. removed besulim b/c they couldn’t have bia rishona, and Dr. says that must be together the night after the procedure in order to keep the area open. Is she a nida after the procedure?

R’ Moshe thinks woman does not become a nida b/c dam besulim are fundamentally dam maka and we are machmir b/c of dam chimud which is only a chashash when there is tashmish. Im kein, when there is no tashmish, no chashash. And says this would be true even if the Dr didn’t say that they had to be together that night. But if find dam after the tashmish after the procedure, assume it’s dam besulim and have to be poreish immediately.
B. שו"ת Maharsham 210- Same shayla, is Dr believed that this is dam besulim, but only shayla is can we let her just wait 4 and 7 instead of 5 and 7, b/c assumes that she is considered a nida.

 See how big a kula R’ Moshe is b/c e/one before him always assumed that any dam besulim was treated as dam nida.


*Will depend on circumstances. A lot of times they have already tried, failed, now she became a nida, and now if are machmir again she will be nida again and they still haven’t been together, big tzorech, will use R’ Moshe.

**R’ Abadie wanted to be meikil even in case where man punctured them w/ his hand while trying to find right place to be boel.


V. What if there is no dam?

A. רשב"א Thb 5a – Even if there wasn’t dam they have to be poreish b/c have to assume there was dam and it got lost. We pasken like this רשב"א.


B. רא"ש 10:1 – says same svara as the רשב"א.
C. ראב"ד Baalei haNefesh – Quotes two sides, [note mentions that tzad l’hakeil is mashmaus from שו"ת R’ Hai Gaon] and paskens like kula side that only poreish when they find dam, but if she does a bedika and doesn’t find dam, remain מותר.
D. שו"ע 193:1 –

1. מחבר: Have to be poreish right away b/c maybe there was dam and we missed it. רמ"א: There are meikilim if didn’t see dam. And we are noheig l’hakeil in cases where there wasn’t a bia gemura.


V. But shayla is what is a bia gemura?

A. Gm Yevamos 55b – Talks about concept of haaraa. Whenever have issurei bia, always refers to haaraa, techilas bia is all you need to be chayav kareis, misa, etc. But machlokes in gm whether this refers to neshikas haever or hachnasas atara. We generally assume that it refers to hachnasas atara.


B. רמ' 1:10 – Machnis atara, called haaraa. And all bios assuros are violated when only do this, even if no hotzaas zera, and even if weren’t gomer the bia.

1. שו"ת Node B’Yehuda EH 23 – Thinks that anything more than just hachnasas atara is considered gmar bia. Makes this diyuk in the רמ'. And this is why רמ' says machnis rosh atara bilvad.

2. Sidrei Tahara 193:1 – Gmar Bia means that machnis the whole ever. And this is normative psak in these shaylas.

3. Badei haShulchan 193:19 – At first wants to meikil as long as they are both mesupakos if there was gmar bia, she didn’t feel any pain, and there is no dam. But say limaaseh, since very hard to tell what’s what, as long as he’s sure there was haaraa. But if he’s not even sure if there was haaraa and she didn’t feel anything and there’s no dam, then can be meikil.


**R’ Simon: No dam, man thinks didn’t have bia gemura, can use the kula of the רמ"א. Especially if we know that the woman has besulim and they didn’t see dam. Important to make sure there was bia gemura now b/c if machmir now, then when have 2nd bia and there’s a lot of dam, see that first one wasn’t bia gemura and now this was really first tashmish, and now maybe have to אסור them now (see below) (hotzaas zera is not part of the equation at all).
C. Igros Moshe YD 1:85 – First bia wasn’t gemura, but they saw dam, and after 2nd bia have no dam. Meikil b/c even though רמ"א is meikil by haaraa and no dam b/c maybe didn’t break the besulim, here there was dam, so likely that he did break the besulim (רש"י Kesubos 9 that can break besulim w/ just haaraa). Also, often bogeres has very little dam besulim so likely this was all of it, so no reason to be machmir by 2nd tashmish.
VI. Bia Shenia and there’s more dam

A. Aruch HaShulchan 193:11 – Often takes more than one tashmish to get rid of all the dam besulim. Therefore, have to check the sheets after each time to see if there is dam there. And if there is, have to be poreish again. However, if there is no dam, don’t have to be machmir.

1. שו"ת Teshuras Shai 134 (quoted in Darkei Teshuva) – After bia shenia and woman felt tzaar, do they have to be poreish until the morning when they can check the sheets? (They didn’t have electricity). No need to be poreish b/c at worst it’s a safeik dirabanan and sfek sfeika on the doraysa. And she has chezkas tahara. However, he does think that if have a candle, should check.
*R’ Abadie: Chidush of Aruch Hashulchan is not that there is dam besulim more than one time but that you have to look for it.

**Some morei horaa do pasken like the Aruch HaShulchan, even though it can cause the couple to only be together a few times in the first few months (b/c can see dam besulim for first few times).


B. Tzemach Tzedek (Lubavitch) 154 – Had dam besulim first time, then after tevila, find kesem less than gris in place where the zera is later on after tashmish. If pachos mik’gris can be tole b’maacholes. Then says not e/one agreed w/ him. But then says that whatever the kulas were in the gm, don’t have to be machmir more than them. The gm says bogeres sheraasa gets kula for bia rishona, so we are machmir only on what they were meikil. So since they didn’t have kula by 2nd time, if have a telia of pachos mikigris, don’t have to be machmir.
**But many times bia shenia is not pachos mikigris.
C. Taharas HaBayis (Besulim 10:5,6) – Paskens like the Tzemach Tzedek. And thinks have same kula even on tzivonim. [Adds if had gmar bia 1st time, no need to check for dam the 2nd time. However, there are machmirim to check if she felt pain and he writes nachon l’hachmir to do an external bedika shelo l’ohr haner].
D. Maadanei Asher thinks can be meikil like the Tzemach Tzedek, but not like R’ Ovadya.
**R’ Abadie thinks can be meikil like R’ Ovadya. And this is how R’ Simon paskens for ppl. However, there are many poskim who are machmir like the Aruch HaShulchan.

(I believe he tells ppl to use colored sheets and towels 2nd time)


VII. Pirsa Nida before first bia

A. Gm Kesubos 4a – If woman is pirsa nida before wedding, then she sleeps with women, him with the men.

B. Trumas HaDeshen 253 – Woman became nida a few nights after wedding,, but before bia rishona. Some gedolim were machmir b/c they didn’t have tashmish, but one of gedolim was meikil and says that this issur is only if they didn’t have opportunity to be boel, but if had the opportunity but it just didn’t happen, not chosheish for yichud, not worried about the yetzer hara. And compares this man to a shor muad, if sees other shors 3x and doesn’t gor, see that his yetzer hara has gone down. הה"נ this guy, if had chance and didn’t, see that his yetzer is not so strong.
C. שו"ע 192:4 –

1. מחבר: Kala is pirsa nida before they have tashmish, they shouldn’t have yichud, he should sleep amongst men and her amongst women.

2. רמ"א: Yesh omrim if she was tehora during wedding, but didn’t have tashmish before became nida don’t need shmira, but hamachmir tavo alav bracha.

a. ש"ך 11 – ppl who have this minhag which is shel shtus, not to be boel right away, don’t have the heter of the trumas hadeshen b/c they’re keeping their minhag not being misgabeir on their yetzer. However, doesn’t have a problem w/ Trumas HaDeshen’s din in general.

b. ט"ז 7 – Doesn’t like the comparison of the Trumas Hadeshen to shor muad b/c by shor muad, most of them are not crazy and thie 3x is to go back to normal. But stam men have this tayva, so just b/c held himself back this first days doesn’t mean he doesn’t still have the yetzer. Doesn’t like the kula and thinks it’s not correct to be meikil.
**R’ Dovid Feinstein- Thinks that as long as they tried, were intimate with eachother, then we assume there is no longer issur yichud.

D. Is this issur yichud by chupas nida regular issur yichud or just chashash bia?

1. ראב"ד: Pashut pshat is that he sleeps in room with 2 men and she sleeps in room with 2 women, which is more chamur than regular yichud, where even just 2 other men is enough at night. However, during the day, can be more meikil and let them have yichud. And other harchakos don’t apply either, can even have chibuk v’nishuk (as quoted in רא"ש as well).

a. חזו"א: This whole issur yichud is only dirabanan. And this is why the ראב"ד was meikil bayom.

2. רא"ש – ראב"ד was so intense at night and so meikil during the day! It doesn’t make sense. Rather, thinks that should have regular issur yichud, same during day as at night. So just need two shomrim at night.

3. Chut Shani – Quotes from חזו"א that as long as have doors facing eachother, can have the couple in their own room and another couple in their own room.

4. רמ"א 192:4 – Quotes רא"ש and then ראב"ד that no issur yichud during day, and says minhag is not to allow yichud during the day.


VIII. Removing Besulim Before Marriage

A. Gm Yevamos 34b – Tamar broke the besulim in order to be able to have children from the 1st tashmish w/ Yehuda.

B. Minchas Yitzchak – Does not like the idea at all. Has arichus about how important it is that husband be the one to break the besulim, doesn’t even like when Dr removes them. Also thinks she needs 7 nekiyim both after Dr removes them and after bia rishona after the Dr removes them, so will come to michshol and bitul pru ur’vu. Therefore, shouldn’t do this unless have no other choice.

*Could be that if know that couple won’t be able to be misgabeir, could be meikil, but each situation has to be dealt with on its own.



שיעור #42 (Packet 33) – 3.3.09

Bedikos before and after Tashmish/Hargashos bli dam
I. Source of din of bedikos before/after tashmish

A. Mishna Nida 11a- Woman should be be bodekes e/ day in morn and evening, except for nida, woman who has dam tohar. And she should be mishamesh w/ eidim before and after.

1. Gm 11b – This din of being bodekes is only woman who is asuka b’taharos, need to know all the time if she’s tehora. And therefore has to do bedikos for her husband too (some type of lo plug, once doing bedikos all the time, can’t say don’t need it now l’baala).

2. Gm 12b – R’ Meir: Woman who doesn’t have veses is אסורה to have tashmish. R’ Chanina ben Antignos: Just be mishameish w/ two eidim, and they will incriminate her or they will help her. (רמ' – refers to one bedika before and one after. And the one after was to make sure that wasn’t roe dam machmas tashmish). And end of gm, that woman who doesn’t have veses always needs to do bedika before tashmish, but only talking about woman who is asuka b’taharos. And that’s how רש"י learns here as well, that whole discussion is only about woman who is asuka b’taharos.

3. Mishna 14a – Derech of bnos yisrael is to be mishameish her w/ one eid, him w/ one, and tznuos also do bedikos beforehand.
B. 3 Shitos in rishonim:

1. רש"י throughout the sugya assumes that these gm’s are only for women who are asukos b’taharos, they need bedikos l’baala as well.


2. רמ' IB 4:16 – Woman who doesn’t have a veses is אסורה to have tashmish until she does a bedika. Therefore, always uses two eidim (before and after). If has veses, no need beforehand, unless tznua. But after tashmish, e/one needs, bein yesh la veses or not, and him and her have to check.  Doesn’t seem to say this is only for woman asuka b’taharos.
3. רי"ף Kesubos 60b – Reads different pshat in gm 12b: We’re afraid that any woman could be roe dam machmas tashmish. So if do bedika three times and find blood each time they are אסור to one another and he has to divorce her and can never remarry her b/c maybe she’ll marry s/one else and be normal and he’ll say if I would have known never would have divorced her, get b’taus, and now her new children are mamzeirim. But if do bedikos first 3 times and no dam, she’s muchzekes to be ok forever.  See that רי"ף doesn’t require bedikos by e/ tashmish, only 1st 3 times to ascertain she isn’t roe dam machmas tashmish.
C. רא"ש 1:5 - quotes ר"ח who holds like the רי"ף. And says even though I think we should pasken like רש"י, but divrei ר"ח are divrei kabala hein, so won’t argue.
D. שו"ע 186:1 –

1. מחבר: Woman who has veses kavua doesn’t need bedikos before or after.

2. רמ"א says we are noheig like this deia.
E. 186:2 –

1. מחבר: Woman who doesn’t have a veses, need bedikos before and afterwards first three times (he has to check afterwards the first 3x as well), and if comes out all three times with no dam then never needs a bedika again before or after. According to רמ' and רא"ש, always needs to do bedika before and after.

*Pashtus is that the מחבר is paskening like the רי"ף (stam and yesh omrim).
a. ש"ך 1 – Asks why the רי"ף put these halachos in Kesubos and not in Shvuos where he put the rest of hilchos nida? Explains that the רי"ף really holds like רש"י that no need altz hilchos nida to be doing bedikos before and after tashmish. And that’s why he didn’t put this halacha w/ hilchos nida. Ela, really din by kesuba, when have to divorce wife, when pay kesuba. Ela when man marries woman, have tashmish and there’s dam, now has to suspect she’s roe dam machmas tashmish, and now next three times do bedikos to find out. Im kein, woman who gets married nowadays, no need to do any bedikos before or after tashmish. B/c altz hilchos nida, gm isn’t even saying that, and for after tashmish, have to have reiasa in first place.
F. שו"ת Ohr Yitzchak 29 – Woman does not have to do bedikos before and after to be machzik that she isn’t roa dam machmas tashmish b/c it’s not matzui to have roa machmas tashmish (fill in).

 R’ Simon tells all chasanim that they shouldn’t do this b/c ppl don’t know when to do them appropriately, and usually just leads to kilkulim.


G. Trumas HaDeshen 247 – Assuming like רמ', רי"ף that need bedikos before tashmish if no veses kavua, if woman never sees before two weeks after she is tehora, does she need to do bedikos? Answers that she is considered to have veses kavua not to see during this time, so no need for bedikos during this time.

 Im kein, if would do these first three bedikos during 1st three bios of marriage probably wouldn’t be during the right time. This is why it gets very complicated.


1. Chavas Daas 196:3 – Asks kasha on Trumas Deshen that if he is correct then woman who has veses kavua not to see for more than 30 days shouldn’t have ona beinonis!

2. Sidrei Tahara – אה"נ, woman who doesn’t ever see less than 30 days doesn’t have to keep ona beinonis. But then says it’s not clear, maybe only coming to matir w/out bedika.

3. Igros Moshe YD 2:72- supports the idea of the Sidrei Tahara. And is mashma that she wouldn’t have to keep veses hachodesh either (Pashtus, b/c apparently this woman is not susceptible to the moon, shipura garim, etc. Ha Raya she never sees even close to this time.
II. Woman who feels hargasha but doesn’t see any dam

A. Trumas HaDeshen 246 – Woman has hargasha and then finds white stubstance. Thinks she is temeia b/c hargasha is svara doraysa. And even though she did bedika and didn’t find, must have been there and disappeared.


B. שו"ע 190:1 – Woman who feels that her Uterus opened and she checked and found nothing, there are those who say she is temeia.

1. Pischei Teshuva: Might be better if finds mare kosher b/c can be tole on that, but if finds nothing, worse. Also adds that this chashash only starts if feels pesichas pi hamakor. But if nizdazeia gufa then she remains tehora if she doesn’t find dam.


(R’ Simon quoted maaseh w/ woman who is on pill, just came back from mikva, forgot to take the pill, stained 2 or 3 quarters amount on sun, then on mon and then on tues, and was having cramps. R’ Abadie thought that since she was having cramps too should consider her nida doraysa).
C. שו"ת Radbaz 149 – Woman has hargasha and then does bedika and finds white. Does not think should be machmir b/c didn’t find anything, ein lanu l’chadeish gzeiros midayteinu. But even the Radbaz lichora would say that she needs to do a bedika.
D. Darkei Teshuva 190:1 – Quotes Chachmas Adam, and quotes Tiferes Tzvi that if she is wearing a tight undergarment, do one bedika at the end of the day to make sure, that way you get the bedika but also no worry s/thing fell out and we didn’t see it.
E. Nitei Gavriel – If woman feels these sensations, if it happens three times and each time she did a bedika and was clean, two deios whether she is muteres ligamrei or should be machmir (?) but nowadays that they wear tight undergarments vaday should be meikil.
F. Aruch HaShulchan 190:9 – Only have chashash by pesichas pi hamakor, but zivas davar lach can be tole on mei raglayim (Sd”t). And הה"נ for women who always have white discharge can be tole on that even if feels pph”m. Not worried about nizdazeia gufa either. However, thinks she should do a bedika (not clear if that’s only for pph”m or for any of these).
*Usually women are not feeling these things, and even the trumas hadeshen is probably only a chumra. Being marbe bedikos will generally cause problems.

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